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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
You can call it a "prompt" rather than popup if it pleases you all but the result is mostly the same.

We'll just have to manually react this prompt each time to pause the game and read "a popup" (called micro action bar in The Composer's feedback doc) just to understand what every prompt is about...

Yeah. That's why I think most Reactions could be handled via presets. I mean, would it hurt a player's gameplay strategy that much if they set Uncanny Dodge to something like "Only trigger if enemies deal 10 or more damage" as opposed to saying No on several prompts because enemies attacked and did only 1-9 damage and you are saving it for an enemy that might do 15?

And Shield. How often will you NOT cast it if an enemy comes up and attacks who can deal 10 or more damage, or if they are casting Magic Missile? And if there are situations where you wouldn't, why not turn it off during your turn or tweak the preset so that it triggers only on Magic Missile or whatever?

Either way, the point is that many of the reactions really could have some basic presets to at least cut down on a lot of the need for prompts. You could cut down the number of prompt needed reactions to a select few to keep combat flowing fairly smoothly.

And the more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it really wouldn't take that long to manage presets.

Astarion would maybe have AOO and then maybe Sneak Attack Reaction until level 6 when he'd gain Uncanny Dodge.

Lae'zel would have AOO until maybe maneuvers reactions. So maybe 2 you'd have to set for her?

Shadowheart would have AOO. That's pretty much it.

Wyll and Gale would maybe have more depending on spell picks, but how many reaction spells are you REALLY going to pick and prepare every long rest. And for them, you'd probably turn off AOO presets if you were going to have them focus on spell reactions anyway.

A paladin would have Smite reactions, but that could be preset easily.

A bard would be the potentially biggest and most difficult, but it still could be done with most bard reactions.

Anyway. I'd at least like to test it to see just how well it could be done. If Larian at least implemented a preset system and let us test it, just to see if it works, I'd be willing to try it

Last edited by GM4Him; 24/07/22 04:00 AM.
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Ok. Let's take one reaction preset at a time. Attack of Opportunity is the primary reaction everyone has.

AOO presets - All Enemies (Default); Selected Target(s); Off

Basically, players will standardly want to have AOO trigger every time any enemy leaves melee without disengage. However, there may be times when they don't want to waste it on certain enemies. Example: Don't want it to trigger on goblin. Want to save it for the bugbear who might deal more damage to my mage if he gets past me. So, Selected Target(s) would allow the player to, during their turn, set AOO and then pick only those targets they want it to work on.

Keep in mind that most fights in BG3 have 4-6 enemies, so this really wouldn't take that much time even if you had to do it for 4 or even 6 party members. And again, how often would you really NOT accept an AOO against an enemy who triggers it?

Note: The game would need to also set priority on AOO, maybe based on initiative. If 2 or more PCs are capable of attacking a target with AOO, they should attack 1 at a time instead of having them potentially waste their Reaction. In other words, if PC 1 kills the target with their Reaction, PC 2 wouldn't waste theirs attempting to kill a target that is already dead.

But what if PC 1 has no other enemies near them, but PC 2 does? Priority would need to be set to PC 1 to use their Reaction leaving PC 2 able to still use theirs if another enemy attempts to run.

AOO can be combined with special abilities like Smite and Battlemaster maneuvers and Sneak Attack. So, I suggest - players who love Larian Chain System are gonna live this - the ability to chain Reactions to Abilities. Drag the ability button and chain it to AOO (or right click on AOO button and a list of chainable special abilities appears... Or something similar). So, do you want Smite to trigger with AOO? Drag it and drop it on the AOO Reaction button on the UI. Popup appears asking to set preset:

Chained Special Abilities Presets - All Enemies (Default); Enemies HP > X (you set the HP amount the enemy has that would trigger); Selected Target(s); Off

So, for Smite, I set the HP to 10. Only enemies with 11 or more Current HP would trigger the use of Smite. If an enemy only has 10 or less, my PC would do a regular attack with no Smite.

Rogue wants Sneak Attack to apply to AOO? Drags, drops Sneak Attack on AOO. Sets preset to 12. If enemy has 13 or more Current HP, Rogue would use Sneak Attack as a Reaction if he hit.

Battlemaster wants to use Trip as AOO. Drags and drops. Wants it to trigger on any enemy. Sets preset to 0. Now, enemy attempts to get past Battlemaster. She attacks automatically and uses trip, every time. Battlemaster has suddenly become an effective enemy stopper without the need to pause combat every time to ask if she wants to use Trip.

What about Smite Level 2 or Level 3 or higher? As PC gains higher levels in Smite, the preset allows them to set each Level's interval. Level 1 sets at, let's say 10. Player sets Level 2 at 20. Player later sets Level 3 at 30. Game then knows if 10 or less, no Smite. If 11 to 20, Smite 1. If 21 to 30, Smite 2, etc.

For those times when, again, you want to just select which enemies would trigger the special abilities reaction, this preset is once again available.

Did I miss anything for AOO? Would this pretty much cover it? I'm fairly certain this would do the same thing as the prompts for 90ish% of all AOO scenarios. Thus, if this worked, it would make it so combat could still run smoothly and still give players close to perfect control.

Last edited by GM4Him; 24/07/22 06:18 AM.
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Eh, I don't think most people care too much about exactly how proper reactions are presented in the game, as long as the core ability to have full control over how you use them is in.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
You can call it a "prompt" rather than popup if it pleases you all but the result is mostly the same.

We'll just have to manually react this prompt each time to pause the game and read "a popup" (called micro action bar in The Composer's feedback doc) just to understand what every prompt is about...

Then we'll also have to choose the target if there are multiple ones, switch to our companions tab, select the spell level,...
When the prompt appears, the game already knows what the ability and the targets are. Because the prompt is contextual, I’d add an icon to The Composer’s suggestion indicating what contextual ability the game expects me to (left click) use or (right click) ignore.

I could be wrong, (edit: I am wrong*) but I don’t see any ability that requires anything but a yes/no decision based on context. However, if Larian implement the ability to use Sneak Attack or Manoeuvres with AoO, that would require a few extra icons to appear contextually.

*As you point out, Max, you might need to select a level for your spell. The current level icons work fine for me; I could see the prompt show the Counterspell icon on the top left corner, then three buttons: level 3, level 4, ignore. One click and you’re done.

By the way, it would be a good excuse to redesign the manoeuvre icons to make them instantly distinguishable, which would help the flow of using manoeuvres with AoO.

Last edited by Flooter; 24/07/22 12:21 PM.

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The buttons you can use could easily be in the UI as shown in the Composer's screenshots. In other words, you get the "React" or "Skip", and in the UI below only the Reactions you can use would appear with flashing buttons so you know they are available.

You use Sneak Attack during your turn. Enemy triggers AOO. Only Melee Attack appears on the UI hotbar. Sneak Attack does not.

Next round. You don't use Sneak Attack. Enemy triggers AOO. Sneak attack appears with Melee button for reaction.

Enemy triggers AOO for Battlemaster who didn't use Maneuvers during her turn. React? All maneuvers appear on the hotbar along with standard Melee attack button. No messages needed.

As for Counterspell, enemy mage casts Lightning Bolt. React? Only Counterspell appears on the UI hotbar. You don't need to designate what level spell. Lightning Bolt is a level 3 spell. If you hit Counterspell button, boom. You cast it and stop the lightning bolt.

It could be just that simple if they use the prompt method.

Last edited by GM4Him; 24/07/22 12:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
It could be just that simple if they use the prompt method.
I really hope something like this makes it into BG3.


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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ok. Let's take one reaction preset at a time. Attack of Opportunity is the primary reaction everyone has.

AOO presets - All Enemies (Default); Selected Target(s); Off

Basically, players will standardly want to have AOO trigger every time any enemy leaves melee without disengage. However, there may be times when they don't want to waste it on certain enemies. Example: Don't want it to trigger on goblin. Want to save it for the bugbear who might deal more damage to my mage if he gets past me. So, Selected Target(s) would allow the player to, during their turn, set AOO and then pick only those targets they want it to work on.

1) To me it sounds horrible and tedious. What if I preset AOO to hit targets A and B, but then something happend during the combat (before my reaction) and now I wouldn't want to aoo target A, but instead would aoo target C if thet come out of my range. I PAUSE THE GAME AND CHANGE THE PRESETS. Which defeats the whole purpose of having pausless "flow". Then the situation develops and I do it again. For each character. For each possible reaction. For each remaining enemy. And if I don't do it, I feel like I don't utilize the full potential of the character. No, thanks. I'd rather react to situation each time.

2) If you can only change presets of a character during this character's turn, it defeats the whole purpose of reactions. Reactions to what enemy does before it's your turn again.

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Originally Posted by Flooter
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
You can call it a "prompt" rather than popup if it pleases you all but the result is mostly the same.

We'll just have to manually react this prompt each time to pause the game and read "a popup" (called micro action bar in The Composer's feedback doc) just to understand what every prompt is about...

Then we'll also have to choose the target if there are multiple ones, switch to our companions tab, select the spell level,...

*As you point out, Max, you might need to select a level for your spell. The current level icons work fine for me; I could see the prompt show the Counterspell icon on the top left corner, then three buttons: level 3, level 4, ignore. One click and you’re done.

Yeah then there's the multiple reactions during the same ennemys turn, E.G AOO from 2 characters.
Click yes/no for the first one. Click yes/no for the second + eventually enable his smite + choose the spellslot.

Always click "react" to understand what the prompt is about + having to manage a few things. It really looks like Solasta but with an additionnal real time element.

Originally Posted by Alexlotr
What if I preset AOO to hit targets A and B, but then something happend during the combat (before my reaction) and now I wouldn't want to aoo target A, but instead would aoo target C

How many times while playing have you think "oh damn, I'd really love to have full control because the situation changed so much now that this goblins has moved!" ?

We currently have 0 control and it doesnt have a huge impact on the outcome of combats. I'm all for a better control ofc but having the full DnD flexibility is only necessary to be faithfull to DnD.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/07/22 02:28 PM.
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Originally Posted by Flooter
Originally Posted by GM4Him
It could be just that simple if they use the prompt method.
I really hope something like this makes it into BG3.

I still think a blend of presets and the prompts is probably the way to go. Some Reactions really are quite basic and could easily be managed via presets as mentioned above with AOO. With just a few basic presets, the game could manage a number of your Reactions for you to cut down on the prompts so combat isn't so choppy.

Like Uncanny Dodge, which is my next preset to go over.

Uncanny Dodge presets - All Enemies (Default); Enemies Damage > X (you set the amount of damage the enemy deals to the rogue that would trigger); Selected Target(s); Off

Similar to Special Abilities, the default would be to cut damage in half for whoever hits the rogue first. I mean, if 4 enemies are fighting you, you are only likely to have 1 or 2 attack the rogue per turn. So why wouldn't you want it to trigger on any enemy?

Well, if you are in a larger fight with a boss and mini bosses, then maybe you want to not have it trigger on minions who only deal maybe 10 off at a time. You would likely want it to only trigger on the bigger enemies who could deal 20 or even 30 damage.

This is why the other presets are available. You don't want to halve an attack that only does 4 damage. You want to halve the attack that does 40 damage. So, you either specifically set your Uncanny Dodge targets who can trigger the Reaction or you set a specific damage amount.

I set the damage amount to 15. Phase Spider does 15 damage. It doesn't trigger and rogue takes full damage. Matriarch shows up and hits, dealing 36 damage in a single hit. Uncanny Dodge triggers, reducing it to 18. Rogue is still standing.

I would think that would cover most of the potential scenarios for when a player would actually want to use Uncanny Dodge. I mean, most players would actually base whether they use their Reaction for it on how much the enemy is taking off their rogue. Right?

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Originally Posted by Alexlotr
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ok. Let's take one reaction preset at a time. Attack of Opportunity is the primary reaction everyone has.

AOO presets - All Enemies (Default); Selected Target(s); Off

Basically, players will standardly want to have AOO trigger every time any enemy leaves melee without disengage. However, there may be times when they don't want to waste it on certain enemies. Example: Don't want it to trigger on goblin. Want to save it for the bugbear who might deal more damage to my mage if he gets past me. So, Selected Target(s) would allow the player to, during their turn, set AOO and then pick only those targets they want it to work on.

1) To me it sounds horrible and tedious. What if I preset AOO to hit targets A and B, but then something happend during the combat (before my reaction) and now I wouldn't want to aoo target A, but instead would aoo target C if thet come out of my range. I PAUSE THE GAME AND CHANGE THE PRESETS. Which defeats the whole purpose of having pausless "flow". Then the situation develops and I do it again. For each character. For each possible reaction. For each remaining enemy. And if I don't do it, I feel like I don't utilize the full potential of the character. No, thanks. I'd rather react to situation each time.

2) If you can only change presets of a character during this character's turn, it defeats the whole purpose of reactions. Reactions to what enemy does before it's your turn again.

No. You don't pause the game to change presets. You change them on your characters's turn. It's not flawless, but it would cut out the need for A LOT of pauses and prompts.

Last edited by GM4Him; 24/07/22 02:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
No. You don't pause the game to change presets. You change them on your characters's turn.

Honest question: what makes some of you think that just doing something "in your turn" should not count as a time sink?

As I already said previously, the idea of having to "script" a series of possible reactions every time I'm playing my turn when most of that work may even turn out to be completely useless to ME sounds way, WAY more boring and time consuming that just being stopped with a confirmation prompt at the right time WHEN needed.

Last edited by Tuco; 24/07/22 02:26 PM.
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You wouldn't necessarily have to do things every round.... You would determine yourself the time that is worth it.

Doing things during your turn mean doing things you want to do.
Answering "no" (or toggle off) is taking time not to do somethings. It makes a huge difference to me.

As I already said, I had a lot of fun doing "more" things with my lore bard. I didnt with my valor bard (toggle off constantly). Saying yes/no is mostly the same as playing with toggles but in real time (which makes huge differences ofc. Pops-up rather than what we have now!!)

Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/07/22 02:46 PM.
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I mean, I would GLADLY take a reaction every turn if the occasion presents itself, though.
What I don't want is planning ahead for the chance of a reaction that may or may not even happen.

Last edited by Tuco; 24/07/22 04:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
I mean, I would GLADLY take a reaction every turn if the occasion presents itself, though.
What I don't want is planning ahead for the chance of a reaction that may or may not even present itself.

What we're suggesting is more like this:

AOO is set to All Enemies by default. Oh wait. I'm in a battle against Ragzlin and like a dozen cultists. On Lae'zel's turn, I switch AOO to only trigger on Ragzlin because he's the only person I want her to AOO against of every enemy near Lae'zel. From that moment on in that battle, Ragzlin is the only target she will AOO until I switch the preset again.

Later, he isn't even near her, so I switch it back to All Enemies so at least she uses it on someone. It's as simple as that.

And I'm still thinking that some reactions would still require a pause and choice, like Counterspell. I can't just set a preset on that based on level because then my mage might waste it on some baby spell like Bless at level 3 as opposed to Fireball.

I'm just saying that some Reactions could be presets and some more complicated could be prompts. This would drastically cut down on how many times the Combat is interrupted by prompts.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
AOO is set to All Enemies by default. Oh wait. I'm in a battle against Ragzlin and like a dozen cultists. On Lae'zel's turn, I switch AOO to only trigger on Ragzlin because he's the only person I want her to AOO against of every enemy near Lae'zel. From that moment on in that battle, Ragzlin is the only target she will AOO until I switch the preset again.

Yeah, and my counter-example of why I wouldn't want that is this: I set my AoO to work only on Ragzlin because I consider him the priority target. During his turn Ragzilin does absolutely nothing to activate it, let's say he even moves first and just attacks on the spot. I'm left for the entirety of the remaining round wasting all my AoO opportunities while two other goblins could have triggered it.

So... I wasted more time that confirming a prompt, I had to make a decision upfront that involved switching toggles, selecting targets and what else; in the end it amounted to absolutely nothing.
Why should I be happy with this system, again?

Last edited by Tuco; 24/07/22 03:41 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by GM4Him
AOO is set to All Enemies by default. Oh wait. I'm in a battle against Ragzlin and like a dozen cultists. On Lae'zel's turn, I switch AOO to only trigger on Ragzlin because he's the only person I want her to AOO against of every enemy near Lae'zel. From that moment on in that battle, Ragzlin is the only target she will AOO until I switch the preset again.

Yeah, and my counter-example of why I wouldn't want that is this: I set my AoO to work only on Ragzlin because I consider him the priority target. During his turn Ragzilin does absolutely nothing to activate it, let's say he even moves first and just attacks on the spot. I'm left for the entirety of the remaining round wasting all my AoO opportunities while two other goblins could have triggered it.

So... I wasted more time that confirming a prompt, I had to make a decision upfront that involved switching toggles, selecting targets and what else; in the end it amounted to absolutely nothing.
Why should I be happy with this system, again?
++ was about to say the same

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by GM4Him
AOO is set to All Enemies by default. Oh wait. I'm in a battle against Ragzlin and like a dozen cultists. On Lae'zel's turn, I switch AOO to only trigger on Ragzlin because he's the only person I want her to AOO against of every enemy near Lae'zel. From that moment on in that battle, Ragzlin is the only target she will AOO until I switch the preset again.

Yeah, and my counter-example of why I wouldn't want that is this: I set my AoO to work only on Ragzlin because I consider him the priority target. During his turn Ragzilin does absolutely nothing to activate it, let's say he even moves first and just attacks on the spot. I'm left for the entirety of the remaining round wasting all my AoO opportunities while two other goblins could have triggered it.

So... I wasted more time that confirming a prompt, I had to make a decision upfront that involved switching toggles, selecting targets and what else; in the end it amounted to absolutely nothing.
Why should I be happy with this system, again?

It's more like this. Lae'zel goes. You set Ragzlin as target. 4 enemies go who don't trigger AOO because Ragzlin is target. With prompts, each 1 would trigger a pause prompt. But regardless, you'd skip these 4 anyway if you prompt controlled it because you are waiting for Ragzlin to go to see if you are going to get AOO on him.

Next round. Ragzlin turn. He doesn't trigger AOO. He just stands and fights. Several cultists go after. Then Lae. 1 moves that would trigger AOO, but you set Ragzlin as target. Oh well. You maybe missed 1 AOO opportunity before your next turn.

OR ... You know those several cultists come after Ragzlin in order. So, you set Ragzlin AND all those cultists as targets. Then, if Ragzlin doesn't trigger, you might have 1 of those several trigger it and not miss your AOO. Still same result but no pause prompt.

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I realize you just don't want to accept my word for it, but I have to insist:
I'd still prefer to be prompted on a case-by-case basis (and let's be real, it's not like you get FIVE chances at AoO in each turn to begin with) while reacting to things that actually happen rather then wasting more than 2 seconds setting up a "precog reaction" for something that in the end never happens.

And when I say "I prefer it" I don't mean "It's a tough choice but in the end I had to make a pick".
I mean by a wide margin. Not even close. A complete no contest.

Like, I'd ENJOY being prompted a reaction and getting a chance to make a decision on the spot, while conversely I'd rather keep the automated reactions we have now rather than having in place a system where I'm supposed to set up impromptu scripts predicting what's to come.

Seriously, at least as long as we are talking about something basic like AoO and not a counterspell, so with no waste of finite resources involved, I'll stick with "toggle for automation" over "preplanning".

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Originally Posted by Tuco
I realize you just don't want to accept my word for it, but I have to insist:
I'd still prefer to be prompted on a case-by-case basis (and let's be real, it's not like you get FIVE chances at AoO in each turn to begin with) while reacting to things that actually happen rather then wasting more than 2 seconds setting up a "precog reaction" for something that in the end never happens.

And when I say "I prefer it" I don't mean "It's a tough choice but in the end I had to make a pick".
I mean by a wide margin. Not even close. A complete no contest.

Like, I'd ENJOY being prompted a reaction and getting a chance to make a decision on the spot, while conversely I'd rather keep the automated reactions we have now rather than having in place a system where I'm supposed to set up impromptu scripts predicting what's to come.

Seriously, at least as long as we are talking about something basic like AoO and not a counterspell, so with no waste of finite resources involved, I'll stick with "toggle for automation" over "preplanning".

No. I get it. I am just trying to think outside the prompt method. I'm trying to give the preset a chance.

I don't think Solasta's pop-up approach is bad at all except it's a bit annoying with my Paladin Smite. That's really the only one. Uncanny Dodge is also a smidge annoying because both of these happen more frequently. But dang would I put up with those 2 if a better solution cannot be found.

I'm just saying that the preset method, I think anyway, wouldn't be that much more difficult to do and it might still accomplish the same thing. We wouldn't really know until we tested it, and I'd be interested in testing it to see if it would work.

But heck yeah. If we tested it and found it took a lot to preset reactions, and it was simply too easy to forget, like Passive Mode, aid prefer the prompt method. I suspect that is probably the case, but I'd be willing to at least test the preset method.

Last edited by GM4Him; 24/07/22 05:51 PM.
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Honestly, this preset method sounds like it would be a lot to juggle. Maybe actually doing it would be easier than reading it all laid out, but I'd be concerned that for new players, this all could be overly complicated. And I cannot see how it could be smoother and more intuitive than just the style of reactions Solasta has. Whatever flaws they might have, Solasta's reaction system is clear and easy to understand and use. Sometimes that has to take priority over a little bit of clunkiness. And I honestly don't think the clunkiness there is really that disruptive overall.

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