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#818235 01/07/22 08:40 PM
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Ok. They came down big in price. Now there's no question. Getting DOS2 on Steam.

Question is... What package? The base game for like $18? The original DOS game + DOS2 for $23? Eternal for $50 including soundtrack, maps, etc?

Ah! I just don't know.

Sale ends July 7th.

Last edited by GM4Him; 01/07/22 08:52 PM.
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I'd go original package. I didn't like DOS1 very much, but DOS2 was killer. Choose an origin character, it's worth it.


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DOS1 >>> DOS2.

For some reason, people swooned over the tired drama of the plot in dos2, but the combat system is awful, which is what matters.

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I too preferred D:OS1 - it feels more “pure” to me. D:OS2 tried to satisfy players wanting more classic RPG experience (story companions etc) but IMO didn’t make a better game for it. I would go for both if you don’t mind adding those couple extra quid.

Both games are better with a friend.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
I too preferred D:OS1 - it feels more “pure” to me. D:OS2 tried to satisfy players wanting more classic RPG experience (story companions etc) but IMO didn’t make a better game for it. I would go for both if you don’t mind adding those couple extra quid.

Both games are better with a friend.

My DOS1 experience was much better with multiplayer than singleplayer, but I found DOS2 to be enjoyable alone.


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DOS1 was much more rewarding to design characters and win battles in. Also, Kirill smile

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Went with just DOS2 for now. Wanna see what it's like. Everybody says BG3 is SO much like it. Now, I'll see the differences myself.

And frankly, if it's half as good as BG3, I should have a blast.

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In my opinion, and this is a very specific opinion, so I understand if many people disagree with me:
Choose an origin character. Get a full party. Make each character specialize in something, but don't be afraid to branch out a bit. There's fun in rangers, fun in rogues, fun in casters, (a bit less) fun in fighters, but you can mix and match your class. And don't feel stuck because you eventually get a mirror that can let you respec and remake and rebalance your characters. And try to explore and do everything in a certain way.


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I never played any origin stories either game. I don't feel like I missed anything important.

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The issue with not going for an origin character is (as far as I know) that custom characters don't really have any additional interaction compared to origin characters - something that Larian seem to want to avert with Tav.
You don't miss anything major but you're also... just there for the ride. Considering the party lock, you're essentially trading a tailored questline that goes through the most of game for ability to fully customize your looks and get a generic Source ability.

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There are great mods that allow you to fully customize your character. The Larian teen drama plots are not missed smile

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Originally Posted by machinus
There are great mods that allow you to fully customize your character. The Larian teen drama plots are not missed smile

Just a quick question, Machinus. Do you regard all the character-driven dramatic storytelling in DOS2 as "woke teen drama," or is it specific story beats or a style that is reoccurring which is woke or adolescent in nature/quality? I find that the character-driven dramatic storytelling is great for providing additional context and motivation for the actions we choose to take, something that was lacking in DOS1. I would love to hear your take on it because I feel it would enhance my understanding of what makes good character-driven RPG writing.


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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by machinus
There are great mods that allow you to fully customize your character. The Larian teen drama plots are not missed smile

Just a quick question, Machinus. Do you regard all the character-driven dramatic storytelling in DOS2 as "woke teen drama," or is it specific story beats or a style that is reoccurring which is woke or adolescent in nature/quality? I find that the character-driven dramatic storytelling is great for providing additional context and motivation for the actions we choose to take, something that was lacking in DOS1. I would love to hear your take on it because I feel it would enhance my understanding of what makes good character-driven RPG writing.

No, there are also some traditional RPG storylines in DOS, like the gothic cult quests in DOS1, and the deathfog conspiracy in DOS2. Some settings of the DOS games are interesting and for adults. The dialogue is not well written, though, and the "origin" characters, especially in DOS2, seem to be targeted at a very young internet audience, almost like the game was made to be memed and turned into short video clips. The tone and style of Larian's storytelling is not for adults. I never felt like either game created a believable or consistent universe, though. Few games create meaningful player choices, and the jarring NPC behavior and sloppy quest systems in these games don't, either.

The point of D&D is making your own unique character. I don't see the appeal of going through someone else's plot. These are Swen's characters, not mine. I realize it is hard to DM in advance, but giving me 20 options for skin color and 0 options for alignment provides nothing intetesting to the player.

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off topic much?


Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed.
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OK. Been playing DOS 2, and my hopes for BG3 are increasing a lot. I have to say, with all the bad mouthing Larian and DOS 2 and such from various people on this forum, I was thinking that DOS 2 was really gonna suck. I don't even like the premise of a journey to becoming a deity or whatever.

But I've been quite pleasantly surprised. I started out playing it on Classic Mode with a custom character, and I managed to get out of Fort Joy into the marshes. That's when things went south. I decided to start over on Story Mode, for the combat does require a bit of a learning curve for me. I'm not used to all the surfaces and stats and how everything works, so it was getting more than a little frustrating.

But Story Mode has been going VERY well, and I've been enjoying it a lot. Several things I noticed:

1. Item Management is SO much better in DOS 2. I feel like everything has purpose and meaning - crafting, cooking, every weapon and item - and I don't feel like my inventory is overly cluttered. I also don't feel like it's difficult to move things around or buy and sell things. This gives me hope that BG3's Item Management will be just fine once the game is fully released. Items will be useful for crafting - even spoons and such - and it won't feel so pointless to pick up everything and the kitchen sink.

2. Resting mechanics are a bit TOO easy. I mean. Bedroll. Full health. There's literally nothing to it. I can see now why so many DOS 2 fans are so up in arms about any kind of restrictions on resting for BG3. Magic is virtually everything in DOS 2, while in D&D it is quite limited. All this to say, please, Larian. I understand there are a lot of fans of DOS 2 who love this kind of resting system and virtually limitless magic, but DOS 2's magic system is WAY different from D&D's. We still very much need a more restrictive resting system. We just do. I still have hopes that you will do something to make long and short rests more strategic and meaningful.

3. Dialogues don't allow you to switch characters. Once someone starts a dialogue, you can't switch it to someone else. I really hope you allow this for BG3. It drives me crazy when Astarion is, for some reason, suddenly thrown into a dialogue, and he sucks at certain skills that the dialogue calls for, but the character who is really good at said skills just sits there doing nothing. Let us switch characters out or at least take advantage of our party member's skills. I noticed that while traveling with Beast in DOS 2, when I open chests and stuff, I get to take advantage of his Luck bonus or whatever it's called for treasure chests. Why not at least apply the same thing for BG3? You need to convince Kagha to not kill Arabella, so the game gives you the option to have your persuasive cleric MC take the lead in that part of the conversation. Meanwhile, at the entrance to the dank crypt, when you're trying to trick the guy guarding the door using Deception, it'd be awesome to have the option to let my rogue MC with Deception Expertise lead the conversation instead of Lae'zel who I had leading the way.

4. Camera. Oh my gosh! The camera is worse in DOS 2. I almost always have to be zoomed out to see where I'm going. If the camera was tilted down just a little bit more, I'd be able to be in drive mode like a lot of MMORPGs or just plain video games period. Just let us tilt that camera a bit more in BG3 especially so that when we're going up hills we can keep it zoomed in.

5. Chain system/ pathing. It works better in DOS 2... sometimes. I notice that characters still have a tendency to run into poison surfaces, fiery surfaces, etc. especially when I switch between characters. Like others have said before, can we please at least make it so the characters don't move unless I tell the selected character to move somewhere? Just switching between characters shouldn't cause them to all come running up to the selected character. When I'm bouncing around between characters, it's like watching them all dance. I will say this, though. BG3 has come a long way on this. The Group and Group Stealth buttons are a tremendous improvement.

6. Party Management. I know others have said this before, but I feel it a lot in DOS 2. It is way too clunky to switch party members in and out. I'd REALLY like something more like Neverwinter Nights 2 where you just get a popup menu that lists the characters and you can pick who you want in the party and viola. Done. All this going up to them and talking to them to dismiss them and then going up to the one you want and inviting them to join you - and having them say the same things over and over again each time - it's redundant and time consuming. I felt it a lot more in Fort Joy because I dismissed Fane and Red Prince, and I wanted to get Red Prince back and had to go hunting for him. At least in BG3 they're all at camp for you. Even still, having to go to camp and get them is a pain in the butt and unnecessary.

7. Astarion and Sebille. Too similar. I REALLY would like a different meeting scene with Astarion besides a Sebille knockoff. She puts a needle to your throat... Astarion puts a dagger to your throat. They're both rogues. It's really unnecessary. Can we have a meeting with Astarion that's friendlier? I really think he'd be a bit more cunning and deceptive and manipulative rather than stick a dagger to our throats when he's outnumbered - especially if you have a cleric standing there (Shadowheart). Wouldn't he be just a bit concerned she might blast him with a holy spell or something? Either way, I get that he wants answers about what the mind flayers did to him, and for some reason he thinks you know, but there are better ways to get answers from people besides grabbing them and attempting to force them to talk by knife point. Besides, it wouldn't even need to get to that because you could simply have him connect with the MC and viola. No need for him to threaten you. None at all.

8. Speaking with Animals. Wow. It really is quite similar in DOS 2. The animals are all very similar to BG3 animals. I don't know what I expected, but I do feel like the animals from DOS 2 were brought into Faerun. They're all very cheaky, and some are a bit mean and rude. The first time the sheep in DOS 2 kicked my character, I thought about slicing it up with my knives. That said, I'm kinda enjoying Pet Pal. So, it's not necessarily a complaint. It is certainly more interesting than some games portray animals. I mean, they're not boring. I particularly enjoyed throwing the ball in the room full of guard dogs, and the leader was the one to chase it. And I like saving the one dog who the magisters were trying to corrupt. In BG3, I like the squirrels complaining about the bard's horrible singing, and I enjoy some of the animal interactions.

Anyway. That's probably enough for now. I just wanted you to know that I do think DOS 2 is a good game, and it gives me hope for BG3's end product. You guys are doing a good job with it overall. I have been enjoying the Bard class a lot - more than I thought I would. I don't normally like bards, but you've made it fun. I like playing tunes and having people come up and listen and make comments. I like that the bard has to make a Performance check to see how well she plays for the crowd. I like the smart-butt comments for Vicious Mockery and such. Overall, it's been a positive experience, and I can't wait for Full Release.

Oh...one last thing. Body types! Character creation REALLY needs them. I noticed each race in DOS 2 has a set body type and that's it. PLEASE do not do that for BG3. I want to create a half-orc as big as Halsin, but I also want to be able to create a half-orc that's a regular sized human. Likewise, I'd love to create a human barbarian as big as Halsin or a scrawny human mage that looks almost like your elves in DOS 2 (okay, so not THAT thin).

Anyway. Keep up the good work!

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I'd like to see your thoughts after you finish act 1. Act 1 is very well designed and is some of the best gaming I've ever had, but the game undergoes a major balance shift the moment you step into act 2 on multiple levels. The way the overall balance shifts immediately after act 1 ends is why some of us are concerned about the long term encounter design of BG3. You probably won't know what we mean until you experience it for yourself. Though to be fair, the real culprits behind DOS2's polarizing endgame won't be a problem in BG3.

DOS2 is also fully balanced around the idea that you're going into every fight with all your resources. Pre-buffing before a fight is possible too, though not very important. Honestly, I've always found the debates around the frequency of resting in BG3 to be rather inconsequential, everyone will rest however many times they want as long as there's no penalty for it. The only real problem with it is how many cutscenes are locked behind resting, which shifts the argument from a difference in playing style to outright missing out on content.

Oh, if you want maximum manipulation, I advise giving everyone 2 points in Aeroteurge in order to give everyone the ability to cast Teleport. That coupled with one other similar spell (which lets you swap the placement of two characters, which can include corpses on the field) available from Act 2 onwards basically lets your entire party move most enemies wherever the hell you want. It's super worth it, and since both spells are pure utility rather than damaging, they work well with any build. Though this might make the game too easy depending on how well you are able to capitalize on this - it's the sort of thing you'd use in Tactician difficulty to make fights much more favorable for yourself. You probably won't be able to give that spell to everyone in Act 1 without some major metagame knowledge though, due to a combination of the spellbook cost along with what happens to the first Aeroteurge vendor in most cases. There is a second vendor but you may forget to check back every time she restocks the book.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 29/07/22 10:11 AM.
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Yeah act2 is what really soured me toward D:OS2. It is pretty clear which part of the game was extensively tested. I hope the same won't happen to BG3 - we didn't even get to titular city.

Chain control isn't a massive problem there due to armor system - especially as you level up, the traps and surfaces don't really keep up with damage, so your characters running through them isn't really an issue (or traps in general).

Story mode should keep things nice and easy for you - if you encounter issues then remember that your gears level is the most important thing to succeed - power gain is mostly distributed through gear. Once you level up a higher level of gear can be dropped or bought. Especially in act2 I found it crucial to re-equip as much of my party as possible after every lvl up.

Last edited by Wormerine; 29/07/22 08:37 AM.
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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Chain control isn't a massive problem there due to armor system - especially as you level up, the traps and surfaces don't really keep up with damage, so your characters running through them isn't really an issue (or traps in general).
It's also a game where health regenerates at will out of combat, so it's not like generally speaking losing half of your HP means much as long as you stay alive for the next five seconds.

Anyway, I still liked most of the *content* of ACT 2 in DOS2 a lot, actually. What I noticed, on the other hand, is that the *systems* started to show all sort of problems due poor mechanics or poor balance, when not a combination of both.
The armor system's influence on the encounter design for instance became progressively worse as numbers started to bloat more and more. And the same went on with itemization. As loot became more abundant AND more bloated in values, it also became quickly clear that "keeping up" with the steep leveling curve across the entire party was turning more and more in an exercise in self-inflicted tedium than an exciting endeavor in getting stronger.

Absolutely not a fan of having to chase randomized "lucky refreshes" in vendor inventories when looking for upgrade, either.


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Story mode should keep things nice and easy for you.
A bit TOO easy, in fact.

Last edited by Tuco; 29/07/22 11:33 AM.
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Well. Thanks for the encouraging words. I am so excited to continue DOS 2 now, and even more hopeful for the future of BG3.

Maybe I need another hobby.

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As was said above: random Diablo-style itemzation (Violent holy frost bastard sword of...whatever) , constant upgrade of items (like, reloading to see if the vendors have better gear to sell) and, god, the armor system...

If you can get past that, it's a really solid game.

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