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Originally Posted by Van'tal
GIve me Tali'Zorah and I will be happy.

Wrex can tank...my favorite characters to make have been tanky, but for Wrex I will adjust.
+1 for Tali.


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Originally Posted by Lyelle
I must admit I catch myself becoming a bit angry whenever he says something stupid.
Now just imagine you could told him that ...
Wont that be divine? O:)


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Speaking of appealing females:

In a time where game romance was unheard of, Planescape Torment offered an option: Fall-From-Grace.

Don't tell Jenifer Hale this, but as much as I have enjoyed her company in games, she seems a little full of herself.


Now there is disagreeable Annah, who exchanges very amusing barbs with Morte the skull...who continues to flirt with her.

Toward the end...just as we are going to face, what may be our end:

She blurts out that she loves me.


Spits coffee...blink...!?!

I'm thinking "So this whole time, this cloud of daggers that you wear is just protection against getting hurt?"

...and she wants to love The Nameless One?...who has a very tarnished history of how he uses women.

I was totally disarmed...that sneaky little rogue went and back stabbed me with Cupid's arrow...in a time you got awarded damage boosts.

Last edited by Van'tal; 01/08/22 11:33 AM.
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OK, back to the topic:

Why does the tadpole stay snuggled in my companions brain when they die.

I hovered over their lifeless body just waiting to squish the little devil...but...nothing.

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Originally Posted by Van'tal
OK, back to the topic:

Why does the tadpole stay snuggled in my companions brain when they die.

I hovered over their lifeless body just waiting to squish the little devil...but...nothing.
Because your tadpoles have been modified, unlike Edowyn and the others' - the Mysterious Guest & Omeluum tell you so. Or because Tav&team are 'chosen ones' - and we'll discover further along the story that we're all 'special'.
I hope it's the first choice instead of the second.


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Originally Posted by Van'tal
OK, back to the topic:

Why does the tadpole stay snuggled in my companions brain when they die.

I hovered over their lifeless body just waiting to squish the little devil...but...nothing.

Why can you only use revivify scrolls on your group members?

Same thing.

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Originally Posted by Neleothesze
Originally Posted by Van'tal
OK, back to the topic:

Why does the tadpole stay snuggled in my companions brain when they die.

I hovered over their lifeless body just waiting to squish the little devil...but...nothing.
Because your tadpoles have been modified, unlike Edowyn and the others' - the Mysterious Guest & Omeluum tell you so. Or because Tav&team are 'chosen ones' - and we'll discover further along the story that we're all 'special'.
I hope it's the first choice instead of the second.
There isn't any indication that our tadpoles have been medled with to be any more 'special' than the ones the absolute cultist's have. Omeluum tells you it's been meddled with, but he's only saying so within the context of a 'normal' tadpole, not compared to the ones the cultists have.

It's implied that the other cultists have similar symptoms-the dream stranger, the powers, etc. The difference is that our characters are *aware* they have been tadpoled. companions will even comment that they don't think the process was 'finished' and that if the ship hadn't crashed, we would have ended up like Minthara, Gut, etc if it had reached Moonrise.

Last edited by Leucrotta; 01/08/22 12:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Originally Posted by Neleothesze
Originally Posted by Van'tal
OK, back to the topic:

Why does the tadpole stay snuggled in my companions brain when they die.

I hovered over their lifeless body just waiting to squish the little devil...but...nothing.
Because your tadpoles have been modified, unlike Edowyn and the others' - the Mysterious Guest & Omeluum tell you so. Or because Tav&team are 'chosen ones' - and we'll discover further along the story that we're all 'special'.
I hope it's the first choice instead of the second.
There isn't any indication that our tadpoles have been medled with to be any more 'special' than the ones the absolute cultist's have. Omeluum tells you it's been meddled with, but he's only saying so within the context of a 'normal' tadpole, not compared to the ones the cultists have.

It's implied that the other cultists have similar symptoms-the dream stranger, the powers, etc. The difference is that our characters are *aware* they have been tadpoled. companions will even comment that they don't think the process was 'finished' and that if the ship hadn't crashed, we would have ended up like Minthara, Gut, etc if it had reached Moonrise.


I'll buy that.

Interesting:

So if you leave Lae'zel in the cage, she shows up at the Githyanki encounter (all 12 HP of her).

Astarian has revealed some good quests to come with Cazador Szarr.

Time to sit him, and see if I can't find a good Fighter sub-class to test on Lae'zel.

Shadowheart died bravely on the Nautaloid (best solution I have found to avoid the cat-fight between apposing clerics).

At full access I will wake her in time visit the cultist at Moonrise Tower...maybe we will learn something more.


Last edited by Van'tal; 01/08/22 02:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Shadowheart - We've talked about a lot. She's dressed like a Sharran with onyx circlet, onyx stones in her armor, and she pretty much screams, "I'm a cleric of Shar everybody." But you're never given the opportunity to question who she is a cleric of, her outfit, or anything. Then, when she reveals her secret, your character's only option is shock. "What? Seriously? You believe in Shar? I did NOT see that coming." Makes no sense. At least give us the ability to question her, have her lie to us, have us make Insight checks and such to see if we can tell she's lying, have us make Religion rolls to determine if we know anything about Shar and her armor and such. SOMEthing to make this make more sense.

Astarion - I've mentioned this on another post. Why does he try to knife you? Makes no sense. Here's this guy who is all alone. He's a vampire spawn who learns "Holy crap! I'm not dying in direct sunlight!" Sure, he saw you running around on the ship, but all the more reason why he wouldn't try to trick you with a boar in the bushes and then put a knife to your throat. It makes no sense to me, especially if he's outnumbered two to 1 (or more in multiplayer mode), and especially if one of those individuals in your party is a cleric. He has no idea what he can or cannot do anymore, and he's alone. It makes way more sense to have Astarion try to be as sweet as pie with you to try to convince you he is a wonderful person to know and have on your team. He should be super friendly and such, trying to lull you into revealing something that he wants to know. I don't know. I just don't think it makes sense for him to attack you, and it would make a lot more players hate him less.

Gale - The one who REALLY doesn't make sense. I mean REALLY REALLY. First, he tells you that he's surprised your alive. "Last time I saw you, you were lying in a crucible's worth of blood; an intellect devourer nibbling at your ear." WHAAA??? When did THIS happen? Ever? Maybe if I screwed up the fight with the intellect devourers in the nautiloid just after leaving the beach, I might have been lying in a pool of blood, but otherwise, no. Makes no sense. At no time was I ever in this scenario. But I can't even ask him what he means. I can't ask him where he was on the ship either. I can't ask him, or anyone really for that matter, to tell me their story about how they survived the ship, how they got away, and what they've been doing all this time. Maybe that's just because it's EA, I don't know, but hopefully at full release they'll let us ask such questions. Also, and this is a big one for me, I have no ability to question Gale with why he is the ONLY origin character we don't connect with at the tadpole level. Shadowheart, Astarion, Lae'zel and Wyll ALL connect via tadpole, but Gale does not. Why? I can't even ask him what he thinks. And why can't I get jealous when Gale flirts with Shadowheart? I mean, what a perfect opportunity to create some tension between party members. He flirts with Shadowheart, and I should have the ability to at least say, "All right. All right. You old smoothy," like Han with Lando. Then I lead Shadowheart away by the hand with my back to him just to make sure he understands. lol. OK. So maybe not quite like that, but you know... something. I can only sit there and watch it play out. And, finally, Gale can die. Oh! He's got this big magic bomb in his chest. If he dies, he'll supernova everything. But hey. We can kill him and leave him for dead on the ground as soon as we meet him. Makes no sense. That goes for Astarion too. He can bleed out and die, even though he's a vampire spawn? ??? Makes no sense. No. If we kill Gale, his ghost self should appear and say to resurrect him quick or else. If you don't... BOOM!!! Game over. Reload. Best not mess with Gale.

And if Astarion dies, SOMEthing different should happen instead of a pool of blood forming around him. He's a vampire spawn. Yes, he's weird because of the tadpole, but it should be something different. I mean, during dialogues, he makes comments like, "I'd like to see you try," when you mention something about killing him. Um... If he can bleed out and die like everyone else, he shouldn't be acting all like he's a vampire spawn still. I don't know. He just doesn't make sense. It's like no one's really sure if he's a vampire spawn or a person. Is he alive or dead? He can bleed out, but he has no reflection, but he has fangs and needs to drink blood, but he can only do so once in a day now, and he can't spider climb, but he can enter places unwelcomed, but he burns when walking through running water, but he doesn't burn up in the sun... It just doesn't add up at all. When his HP is reduced to 0, maybe he should NOT bleed out and instead he starts sizzling and turning into a vapor, as if he's burning up in the sun. SOMEthing to say, "Astarion isn't like everyone else." I mean, Gale has some death cloud around him, so why shouldn't Astarion be different from everyone else?

Lae'zel - "We must get to the creche. NOW!" She nags you to death about it. Then, 7 Long Rests later. She's forgotten all about it. She doesn't even care anymore, and she's still in your party. Why exactly?

Wyll - Same as Lae'zel. "I'm after Mizora and I want to defeat the goblins to save the grove. These are the only things I really care about." We go everywhere but the goblin camp and ignore it completely. He's perfectly fine even after a week of long resting. No issues with Wyll no matter what you do.

I don't know. Like I said. Maybe it's just because it's EA, but there are SO many things that don't make sense.

This is so on point OP... Given the quality of the game in other area is at such standard I can only imagine this will be fixed in the end release.

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Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Originally Posted by Neleothesze
Originally Posted by Van'tal
OK, back to the topic:

Why does the tadpole stay snuggled in my companions brain when they die.

I hovered over their lifeless body just waiting to squish the little devil...but...nothing.
Because your tadpoles have been modified, unlike Edowyn and the others' - the Mysterious Guest & Omeluum tell you so. Or because Tav&team are 'chosen ones' - and we'll discover further along the story that we're all 'special'.
I hope it's the first choice instead of the second.
There isn't any indication that our tadpoles have been medled with to be any more 'special' than the ones the absolute cultist's have. Omeluum tells you it's been meddled with, but he's only saying so within the context of a 'normal' tadpole, not compared to the ones the cultists have.

It's implied that the other cultists have similar symptoms-the dream stranger, the powers, etc. The difference is that our characters are *aware* they have been tadpoled. companions will even comment that they don't think the process was 'finished' and that if the ship hadn't crashed, we would have ended up like Minthara, Gut, etc if it had reached Moonrise.

Yeah. I'm not so sure about that. I mean, you COULD be right that they aren't different from the other cultists, but several things imply that they are, in fact, superior to others.

1. When you die, your tadpoles - the entire party - don't exit the body. Every other true soul tadpole does... or at least did... I'm not sure about Nere's and I haven't played it enough recently to know if they still do. Either way, the fact that the party's tadpoles don't exit the body and try to flee says to me that they are somehow quite different.
2. The MCs tadpole in particular seems to be the Elder Brain tadpole. Why do I say that? If I use the tadpole powers, I trigger the dream for everyone. I use the powers. Everyone receives the tadpole powers like turning into an intellect devourer, reflecting things, etc. Seems like maybe ours is just a wee bit different.
3. The MCs tadpole can actually manipulate and control other true souls, like Ragzlin. You can literally use your connection to mess with him and trick him and even control him. Means the MCs tadpole is maybe just a smidge superior. Don't you think?
4. Minthara tells you that the Absolute thinks you're special. Gut also says you're special.

Now, it COULD be that you're special because the process wasn't finished, but the big one for me is that YOU cause your companions to dream and gain new powers after YOU use YOUR illithid mental connections to mess with other people's minds.

No. I think that you are not under the Absolute's control because the process wasn't finished, but I think you in particular are very special. Your tadpole is quite different from everyone else's. And frankly, I think your origin companions are too... especially since you CAN have them go into a dialogue and use their tadpole mental connection too. Yeah. I'm thinking you're all Elder Brain tadpoles, and you, the player, being the designated leader, have taken on the Alpha Elder Brain role.

Here's another thing to think about. Each and every one of the origin characters is special. Minthara is not. Gut isn't either. Ragzlin's just a hobgoblin warlord. Nere is a drow sorcerer. None of the other true souls are really "special".

But Astarion is a vampire spawn who is really alive and messed with by infernals.

Shadowheart is (my best guess) a resurrected Dark Justiciar from Grymforge, or something similar, who is on a special mission to acquire some githyanki d20 that everyone wants.

Lae'zel is a wannabe Kithrak who obviously did something she doesn't want to talk about, and she's desperately trying to redeem herself in the eyes of her goddess. There's obviously WAY more to her than simply being a gith warrior.

Wyll's got some sort of devil mistress pact thing going on, and he's also obviously got way more secrets he's covering up under his "I'm such a great hero" persona.

And Gale... Don't even get me started. Lover of Mystra? What, is he Elminster reborn? He knows about Netherese magic, which is not common. Yeah. He pretends to be all good, but he's willing to side with a devil if he has to in order to escape the tadpole fate, and he's willing to help you kill all the tieflings and druids in the grove even if afterwards he feels all sorts of remorse.

Mmmhmmm. These aren't normal people. Yeah. I think there's plenty of reason to believe they are ALL, including the MC, quite special and have been infused with special tadpoles.

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I don't think Larian are going to change anything about Shadowheart. They have her in full Sharran gear covered in Sharran symbols in loadscreen art, and her description on the BG3 website goes:

Quote
A loyal cleric of Shar, Shadowheart is the sole survivor of a holy mission undertaken on the Mistress of the Night’s behest. She alone must deliver a relic of immense power to her coven in Baldur’s Gate, while threatened by a strange new magic that is burgeoning from within.
I guess intrigue is so last season over at Fun Videogames Inc. Strange new magic from the tadpole, ok.

Astarion:
Quote
Astarion prowled the night as a vampire spawn for centuries, serving a sadistic master until he was snatched away. Now he can walk in the light and has the chance at a new life, but how long can he keep his past buried?
Centuries as a vampire spawn, level 1. Check.

Gale:
Quote
Gale is a wizard prodigy whose love for a goddess made him attempt a dread feat no mortal should. Blighted by the forbidden magic of ancient Netheril, Gale strives to undo the corruption that is overtaking him and win back his goddess’ favour before he becomes a destroyer of worlds.
Destroyer of worlds, ok. Thanks for letting us know before finding out his secrets through game events.

Lae'zel:
Quote
Lae'zel is a ferocious Githyanki warrior, mighty even by the standards of her mind flayer-hunting kind. Faced with transforming into the very monster she's sworn to destroy, Lae'zel must prove herself worthy of rejoining her people - if they don't execute her first.
Execute.. thanks for confirming the "cure" part of the plot so no unnecessary surprises at the Creche can be experienced. So mighty by Githyanki standards Sarth Baretha can take her down before she gets a turn.


I find all this really lackluster as I really like to experience this stuff first hand and actually be surprised by the characters and the plot. Major spoilers, really. Just to have playable Origin characters I will never even consider using. I didn't want to know about Shar, and I didn't want to know about vampire. I don't want to play AS my companions. Why would anyone?

Last edited by 1varangian; 01/08/22 03:53 PM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
her description on the BG3 website
[Linked Image from i.imgflip.com]

Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't think Larian are going to change anything about Shadowheart. They have her in full Sharran gear covered in Sharran symbols in loadscreen art
But do we really need to change her so badly?
Okey, Larian is strictly against any visual changes, they demand her to look like this ... why not let players recognize it then?

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 01/08/22 04:25 PM.

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I assume that ALL the characters - Custom and Origin - have been reset by the tadpoles. So, yes. Gale WAS a powerful mage. Wyll WAS the Blade of Frontiers. However, just as Astarion has become "conveniently lost" so have they all. None are who they once were from a skill and power perspective.

But it is a bit frustrating that all the companions have had their basic stories spoiled, and yet you're supposed to pretend you don't know anything about them when you meet them.

There, again, is one of my points. Let's just rip things off like a bandaid. Let me have the ability to roll to determine if I know anything about Shar and/or if Shadowheart is lying. Let me call her on it. Let's just get it out of the way. Don't drag it out like it's some huge surprise and have my character super shocked when they "discover" the truth from her. In fact, give me various chances to call her on it. Like the whole owlbear cave Selune statue thing. Let me call her on it. "Why are you SO against Selune? She's a good goddess, you know. Come to think of it. You're a cleric of trickery domain. Right? Who do you serve again?"

I've really been mulling over the SH situation, and at first I thought it would be cool if she wore normal armor and such. But now, I'm like, no. Let's just leave it as is, but give us the chance to get the whole "I'm a frightening cleric of Shar type person" over with. For a few people, who know nothing about the game, it will be a shock later, IF they even know who Shar is - which they probably won't because if they did it wouldn't surprise them in the slightest if they knew anything about Forgotten Realms.

So why bother even trying to make it some huge surprise thing. Get it over with. If people accept her in the beginning, they accept her. If not, reject or kill her and move on.

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No metagaming at the table. Yes, Larry's been talking about playing a vampire all week, but Tav doesn't know that yet! Come on, guys, I'm serious stop buying holy water for no reason.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
There, again, is one of my points. Let's just rip things off like a bandaid. Let me have the ability to roll to determine if I know anything about Shar and/or if Shadowheart is lying. Let me call her on it. Let's just get it out of the way. Don't drag it out like it's some huge surprise and have my character super shocked when they "discover" the truth from her. In fact, give me various chances to call her on it. Like the whole owlbear cave Selune statue thing. Let me call her on it. "Why are you SO against Selune? She's a good goddess, you know. Come to think of it. You're a cleric of trickery domain. Right? Who do you serve again?"
If it would be well handles it could be the best way to proceed. I think of Disco Elysium and how what your character knows, perceives and thinks is determined by his stats and rolls, not by players knowledge/perception. Of course, like in DE the narrator would need to bring player up to speed - so if you PC recognises symbol of selune, the narrator should give player info on who that is.

That would be an abitious way of doing things, though, and Larian invested themselves in other reactivities.

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This is a great point, the narrator is criminally underutilized in this respect.

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I was thinking about this further. Some players are like, "I don't want my character or the narrator to teach me who Shar is. That would slow down the game. I don't want a long lecture on the topic."

True. Very true. Especially on replays, the last thing you want is for the game to make a Religion check, you succeed, and it suddenly launches into all the nuances as to why Shadowheart's armor and equipment scream of Shar. Then it lectures you about who Shar is and her long history with Selune.

So great. Fine. Can we still have the rolls and can we have a Compendium of Knowledge? Every time my character succeeds in a roll like that, information is added to my Compendium of Knowledge. I meet Shadowheart for the first time, a Religion roll is made, I succeed, and Poof! Knowledge about Shar appears. I rolled really well. Knowledge about Dark Justiciar Armor also appears. All recorded in my compendium. Then, IF I want to open it and look, I can read all about these things.

Nevertheless, whether that happens or not, I think we still need to be able to ask her what goddess she serves, and she should probably lie and give us a different deity, then let us make an Insight roll to see if she's lying, or something similar, and just give us the ability to call her on it.

Likewise, have the game make Investigation checks for me as I'm roaming the beach and checking bodies. Compendium update. I open it. It reads, "The fishermen on the beach have nasty claw marks detailing that they were slashed by some three-toed creatures." Another check later. Compendium update. "Some of the fishermen killed the intellect devourers near the pier, but most fishermen fled north." Later. Approach goblins. Investigation check. Compendium Update. "You find crossbow bolts in the goblins. Someone shot them from above, it seems." or "You find several fractured skulls and shrapnel in their backs. These goblins were killed by pieces of the exploding nautiloid."

Little things like that would allow players like me to have some better idea of what's going on rather than doing a lot of guessing and trying to figure out things that frankly seem like the devs were just throwing out there without really any purpose. I mean, a lot of times it really seems like the devs were like, "Hmmm. What would go good here. Ah! I know. Let's throw four dead intellect devourers by Shadowheart near the crypt entrance and have her make a reference to having killed them. Why not?"

Um... How did she kill 4 intellect devourers by herself exactly?... without a crossbow?... even though she says keep your distance because they'll kill you if you get too close?

Investigation check. Compendium Update. "Even though Shadowheart SAID she killed these 4 intellect devourers, you determine based on the wounds you find on their bodies that these were obviously killed during a scuffle with the fishermen/women nearby. There are broken spears stuck in their flesh, and one looks as if it's been clubbed repeatedly by a wooden weapon. It is doubtful that Shadowheart actually killed them with only a mace and shield by herself."

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May be (???) Shadowheart killed them with her patron god magic because she is a chosen of Shar??? I think it is good to leave some things for player interpretation. There is some category of very sensitive players who can get pushed back by some extremely mundane stuff. Always seems weird to me - to question the plot like that. People are fallible, their motivations sometimes unclear and unpredictable. We are used to archetypical characters and idealistic models. I am no perfect judge of character but I enjoy every companion in a unique way and don't find anything too much out of place. The only exception is companions not sticking to their own origin, it could be cool to see the party being "split" in halves, like Laezel and Wyll leaving the party to take a creche route. To have more leaders to the party and mb even character development, under certain circumstances, into a leader by even the most dependant of characters. As of now it feels like Tav is the centre of the world. But that might be an unpopular opinion.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I assume that ALL the characters - Custom and Origin - have been reset by the tadpoles.

This is the only explanation that can even begin to explain the companions and I find it really off-putting.

The tadpoles have no reason to do this. Exactly the opposite. Why would they want weakened thralls? Getting an archmage would be a jackpot for the Absolute. Going through such lengths just to get level 1 cannon fodder doesn't make any sense. Minthara, Ragzlin and Nere aren't weakened. How convenient.

I think it's just a complete disconnect between writing and game mechanics. Everyone is legendary and amazing at level 1. Even though they get owned by goblins. Levels do not reflect actual power. By this logic an archdruid can also be a low level companion and you can slay Adamantine Golems at level 4.

And everyone gets to have an epic backstory except... you.

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Something to do with the Netherese magic on the tadpoles, is my guess. Plus, Larian needed a way to take super powerful backstory characters and make them level 1.

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