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Originally Posted by Alexlotr
Still think that proper promts is the best solution for the reaction though, even if you know the damage number. Because it not only depends on the damage you're about to recieve but also on whether or not you're planning to use your reaction for something else this turn, not matter the damage (aoo for example). Presets just wouldn't give strong enough control.

Oh, no doubt about this.
And people who love their toggles for automation so dearly could still use them all the way to the grave. So everyone is a winner.

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Originally Posted by Alexlotr
Originally Posted by The Composer
EDIT: The irony of presenting humble opinion as an objective truth is strong here. "Yes, it is." - How is that an opinion, yet "No, it isn't." is presented as objective truth? Take a moment to think on that.
Well spotted! It is indeed irony, but also it is a direct quote of Jandk, who more the most defends his right (and rightfully so) to have an opinion, yet posts stuff like "Yes, it is" (#Post824891) which I simply copied to my post.

If you read carefully, apply some good faith and read the whole paragraph, it is both implied by context, and clarified as an opinion. You're also conveniently avoiding the context of you claiming this to be him claiming this opinion to be objective truth. So don't play this fallacy/semantics game with me. I did warn you suspensions would follow if you did. See you in 7 days.

I believe it was Tuco whom promptly shared a video not too long ago, which I quite enjoyed - Enough to bookmark.



Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Alexlotr
Still think that proper promts is the best solution for the reaction though, even if you know the damage number. Because it not only depends on the damage you're about to recieve but also on whether or not you're planning to use your reaction for something else this turn, not matter the damage (aoo for example). Presets just wouldn't give strong enough control.

Oh, no doubt about this.
And people who love their toggles for automation so dearly could still use them all the way to the grave. So everyone is a winner.

+1

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Originally Posted by Alexlotr
Still think that proper promts is the best solution for the reaction though, even if you know the damage number. Because it not only depends on the damage you're about to recieve but also on whether or not you're planning to use your reaction for something else this turn, not matter the damage (aoo for example). Presets just wouldn't give strong enough control.
Many of us keep repeating this for at least year and half now ... every time this topic rise again. laugh


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Originally Posted by Tuco
Why are we still discussing Smite? It's almost a given that it will get the "Battlemaster treatment".

And I doubt Larian needs any convincing on compromising. If anything it's looking like it could be take some work to dissuade them to go too far in that direction. Assuming there's any hope left.

Also, as someone already pointed to you, GM4Him, you don't get the luxury to know ahead how much damage your rogue is defending against. Not even in the tabletop.
At most you can make your choice according to which attack LOOKS like it may be the most dangerous.

The idea is that small tweaks could be made to the core rules in order to cut down on prompts. That's all I'm saying. Would it be a big deal if the game allows damage to be rolled first before applying Uncanny Dodge? It would be to the benefit of the player, and it would cut down on prompt frequency.

Prompt without preset: You're being attacked by Sazza the goblin. Use Uncanny Dodge? No. She can only do maybe 8 damage if she's lucky.

Uncanny Dodge Damage Preset at 10: Sazza hits and does 8 damage. Uncanny Dodge isn't used. Same basic result.

Prompt without preset: You're being attacked by Ragzlin the hobgoblin warlord. Use Uncanny Dodge? YES. He can do some serious damage.

Uncanny Dodge Damage Preset at 10: Ragzlin hits and does 22 damage. Uncanny Dodge is prompted. Use Uncanny Dodge? YES
Same basic result.

Only way it wouldn't be the same result is if Ragzlin wound up doing less than 10 damage to you or if Sazza got a crit. Either way, not much difference, and it would be in the player's favor since if Sazza got a crit you probably would want to use it, and if Ragzlin rolled less than 10 you might want to save it for a different enemy who might still take off more than 10.

The point is, not much sacrifice for a bit more combat speed.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Either way, not much difference
Quite honestly, seems like big difference to me. O_o

In your suggested way, any damage that is "less than your preset value" leaves you with unused Reaction ... and that is the problem.

If you would decide when to use it, and when not ... all you see is Ragzlin attacking you ... you can use your reaction and avoid dmg 2, or dmg 22 ... that is just how thigs go.

Now imagine you are Tiefling ...

When your preset system automaticly avoids reaction for any damage that is less than 10 and therefore "not dangerous for you" ... you can easily use Hellish Rebuke, Tieflings inherit in any turn ...
Maximal effectivity, no place for misstakes ... either you avoid killing blow, or you hit back really hard ... and you didnt basicaly do anything, the game did everything for you.

When you have no automatic system, but only popups ... YOU have to gamble, you have to decide, and then (and only then) you find out if your guess was right, or wasted.

That is huge difference. :-/

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 04/08/22 07:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Alexlotr
Still think that proper promts is the best solution for the reaction though, even if you know the damage number. Because it not only depends on the damage you're about to recieve but also on whether or not you're planning to use your reaction for something else this turn, not matter the damage (aoo for example). Presets just wouldn't give strong enough control.
Many of us keep repeating this for at least year and half now ... every time this topic rise again. laugh
Can anyone at Larian just say "Hi, we're doing reactions this way"? We've discussed this topic so much that we manged to make up a whole reaction system based only on our suggestions where everyone wins. And it is getting hard to go furher without any confirmation/objection from Larian

So please, Composer or Salo, sorry if I'm pushing it on you, but can you influence someone there just to say "yes, it's going to be full-control prompts with <toggles or smth else>" or "no, it's going to be fully passive-automated system"

Last edited by mercurial_ann; 04/08/22 09:31 PM.

add hexblade warlock, pls
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Also, i think it's fair to say that they have the system developed already(at least working prototype), assuming we have 6-8 months before release. So i really don't see the point in ignoring this topic completely except big WOW surprise at release to everyone say 'see, i told you they'd do it right", which is not a good strategy overall


add hexblade warlock, pls
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The problem/ common fear is that they indeed have the system developed already... And that's exactly what we are using now. Tough luck.

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It's hard to say. There are some UI indications, that it will be replaced, but who knows. And for that i'm asking for Larian to clarify


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Either way, not much difference
Quite honestly, seems like big difference to me. O_o

In your suggested way, any damage that is "less than your preset value" leaves you with unused Reaction ... and that is the problem.

If you would decide when to use it, and when not ... all you see is Ragzlin attacking you ... you can use your reaction and avoid dmg 2, or dmg 22 ... that is just how thigs go.

Now imagine you are Tiefling ...

When your preset system automaticly avoids reaction for any damage that is less than 10 and therefore "not dangerous for you" ... you can easily use Hellish Rebuke, Tieflings inherit in any turn ...
Maximal effectivity, no place for misstakes ... either you avoid killing blow, or you hit back really hard ... and you didnt basicaly do anything, the game did everything for you.

When you have no automatic system, but only popups ... YOU have to gamble, you have to decide, and then (and only then) you find out if your guess was right, or wasted.

That is huge difference. :-/

My suggestion is that presets would allow for both. Want prompt every time? There’s a preset for that. Want a prompt only when certain conditions are met? There’s a prompt for that so people who want less prompts could cut some of it down with intelligent preset options. Want no prompts? Set to no prompt and trust the preset.

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Originally Posted by mercurial_ann
Can anyone at Larian just say "Hi, we're doing reactions this way"?

So please, Composer or Salo, sorry if I'm pushing it on you, but can you influence someone there just to say "yes, it's going to be full-control prompts with <toggles or smth else>" or "no, it's going to be fully passive-automated system"
I think they can ... in the sense that there is no technical issue that would hinder. :-/
But i also think they dont want to ... not sure why tho, they allready promised better reaction system, so they obviously have something in mind ... but its possible that they stick to theory "you dont have to do something you didnt promise" or something like that.

As for the second part, i allready asked Composer for the same, sadly he answered me that he have no connection to anyone from Larian who can make such statements. frown
The best he can do (as i understanded it) is to point suggestions out for them ... wich he allready did in the past.

---

Originally Posted by GM4Him
My suggestion is that presets would allow for both. Want prompt every time? There’s a preset for that. Want a prompt only when certain conditions are met? There’s a prompt for that so people who want less prompts could cut some of it down with intelligent preset options. Want no prompts? Set to no prompt and trust the preset.
Yes i know ... it may surprise you, but i have read it, even tho it may not seem like it. laugh

But one of them is objectively a lot stronger and that is the problem im trying to point out. :-/
Its like:
Here are your options to crush this rock:
1) bronze mallet and hammer
2) pneumatic drill made of hardened steel


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Originally Posted by mercurial_ann
As for the second part, i allready asked Composer for the same, sadly he answered me that he have no connection to anyone from Larian who can make such statements. frown
The best he can do (as i understanded it) is to point suggestions out for them ... wich he allready did in the past.

That's sad


add hexblade warlock, pls
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by mercurial_ann
Can anyone at Larian just say "Hi, we're doing reactions this way"?

So please, Composer or Salo, sorry if I'm pushing it on you, but can you influence someone there just to say "yes, it's going to be full-control prompts with <toggles or smth else>" or "no, it's going to be fully passive-automated system"
I think they can ... in the sense that there is no technical issue that would hinder. :-/
But i also think they dont want to ... not sure why tho, they allready promised better reaction system, so they obviously have something in mind ... but its possible that they stick to theory "you dont have to do something you didnt promise" or something like that.

As for the second part, i allready asked Composer for the same, sadly he answered me that he have no connection to anyone from Larian who can make such statements. frown
The best he can do (as i understanded it) is to point suggestions out for them ... wich he allready did in the past.

---

Originally Posted by GM4Him
My suggestion is that presets would allow for both. Want prompt every time? There’s a preset for that. Want a prompt only when certain conditions are met? There’s a prompt for that so people who want less prompts could cut some of it down with intelligent preset options. Want no prompts? Set to no prompt and trust the preset.
Yes i know ... it may surprise you, but i have read it, even tho it may not seem like it. laugh

But one of them is objectively a lot stronger and that is the problem im trying to point out. :-/
Its like:
Here are your options to crush this rock:
1) bronze mallet and hammer
2) pneumatic drill made of hardened steel

Doesn't surprise me, actually. You're probably one of the only people who does take the time to read things through no matter how long they are.

And ok. I'll accept this as your opinion. I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm sure others who hate prompts will.

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Hey everyone,

While we're actively working on Baldur's Gate 3, there's still more coming to Early Access, in no small part driven by community feedback such as this.

While in Early Access, design is in flux as we work to build & implement new systems & features.
How reactions are handled in the game is an example of a that is system currently being explored internally, but we're not yet ready to talk about it.
We've been eagerly reading your feedback and discussing it with the teams, but we prefer to show rather than tell.

Feel free to comment in the forums or on our social Media, to your heart's content!
We aim to interact with you as much as we possibly can.
So again: Thank you for being a part of our community! cool


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Originally Posted by Nicou
Hey everyone,

While we're actively working on Baldur's Gate 3, there's still more coming to Early Access, in no small part driven by community feedback such as this.

While in Early Access, design is in flux as we work to build & implement new systems & features.
How reactions are handled in the game is an example of a that is system currently being explored internally, but we're not yet ready to talk about it.
We've been eagerly reading your feedback and discussing it with the teams, but we prefer to show rather than tell.

Feel free to comment in the forums or on our social Media, to your heart's content!
We aim to interact with you as much as we possibly can.
So again: Thank you for being a part of our community! cool

Thank you for this! I appreciate it so much.

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Originally Posted by Nicou
Hey everyone,

While we're actively working on Baldur's Gate 3, there's still more coming to Early Access, in no small part driven by community feedback such as this.

While in Early Access, design is in flux as we work to build & implement new systems & features.
How reactions are handled in the game is an example of a that is system currently being explored internally, but we're not yet ready to talk about it.
We've been eagerly reading your feedback and discussing it with the teams, but we prefer to show rather than tell.

Feel free to comment in the forums or on our social Media, to your heart's content!
We aim to interact with you as much as we possibly can.
So again: Thank you for being a part of our community! cool
Ohmygod an official response, given directly to us forum members, commenting on Larian's current efforts on a specific mechanic. What a day! Apparently I've been missing out on news by not paying attention to the "Chat" section of this forum (Belated Welcome to both you Nicou and Salo!).

Glad to hear that Larian is still investigating a new reaction system and that the current implementation isn't necessarily the final one. A bit worried about the term "explored," but if that's all you can say then that's all you can say. Thanks for the response!

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Originally Posted by Nicou
Hey everyone,

While we're actively working on Baldur's Gate 3, there's still more coming to Early Access, in no small part driven by community feedback such as this.

While in Early Access, design is in flux as we work to build & implement new systems & features.
How reactions are handled in the game is an example of a that is system currently being explored internally, but we're not yet ready to talk about it.
We've been eagerly reading your feedback and discussing it with the teams, but we prefer to show rather than tell.

Feel free to comment in the forums or on our social Media, to your heart's content!
We aim to interact with you as much as we possibly can.
So again: Thank you for being a part of our community! cool

I think I'm going to frame this.
While it remains predictably vague, it may be the closest thing to a direct answer from the studio we got in 2 years of EA.

Last edited by Tuco; 05/08/22 03:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by Nicou
How reactions are handled in the game is an example of a that is system currently being explored internally, but we're not yet ready to talk about it.
We've been eagerly reading your feedback and discussing it with the teams, but we prefer to show rather than tell.

Feel free to comment in the forums or on our social Media, to your heart's content!
We aim to interact with you as much as we possibly can.

Thanks for the information/confirmation. Swen had said they are working on Reactions, but that was in Panel From Hell 3 (over a year ago), and in Panel From Hell 6 the word Reaction was carefully avoided, despite the showcasing abilities costing Reaction for a Class that likes Reaction. So it's good to know.

There is a difference between saying how the next iteration of Reaction will be in details, saying that it's being worked on, and saying nothing.

I understand that Larian does not want to outline their new system in any detail, and prefer to let players actually try it. This can probably generate more interesting feedback than if players comment on the new system at a purely theoretical level.

Saying nothing wasn't better though, as it generated tons of unnecessary chatter.

Saying "it's currently being explored internally, but we're not yet ready to talk about it" is, in my view, the best communication policy by a mile kilometer. And also, bonus, it's quite cheap. I'm very glad to see what seems like a change of direction.


Hoping we'll be able to create great assumptions-free Custom Characters and be given great roleplay options.
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Thanks for the update, Lenny The Dwarf King😸

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Originally Posted by Nicou
Hey everyone,

While we're actively working on Baldur's Gate 3, there's still more coming to Early Access, in no small part driven by community feedback such as this.

While in Early Access, design is in flux as we work to build & implement new systems & features.
How reactions are handled in the game is an example of a that is system currently being explored internally, but we're not yet ready to talk about it.
We've been eagerly reading your feedback and discussing it with the teams, but we prefer to show rather than tell.

Feel free to comment in the forums or on our social Media, to your heart's content!
We aim to interact with you as much as we possibly can.
So again: Thank you for being a part of our community! cool
Thank you so much for your response! Hope we'll have enough time to test this new system out


add hexblade warlock, pls
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