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GM4Him #817958 29/06/22 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
At this point, I see no reason to believe it'll be any different from DOS2 - well, what I'm assuming anyway since I've never played DOS2.

You're missing out. It's more streamlined than the early 00s RPGs but it's really really good.


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GM4Him #817986 29/06/22 12:52 PM
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Honestly, I go back and forth about playing it. I love BG3, so I've considered buying it. On the other hand, there's been so much negativity out here about DOS2, and the experience with EA for BG3 hasn't been great... and if they really botch up BG3, will I WANT to buy anymore games from Larian? And then there's the story premise. I'm not a big fan of games where the premise is, "You are working towards becoming a god."

But, others have made me consider it. They talk about how fun the dialogues are and choices and such. Makes me consider it again. But then I hear something I REALLY don't like - such as "After Act 1, you have to choose only 3 companions to continue with you." WHAT?!!! No thank you. That's terrible.

But then I think, "Is it really that big a deal? I mean, in BG2, I pretty much did that naturally. After playing around with a few companions, I eventually chose a set group and finished the game with them - and my decision came pretty early on. So is it REALLY that big a deal to force players to choose at some point who they are going to finish the game with?

So yeah. We'll see. Larian HAS impressed me a lot with BG3. I still consider it probably the best cRPG I've played ever in my life. As much as I talk up others sometimes, I've never been THIS involved in a video game before. EVER. I still keep coming back to this forum day after day trying to think of new ways to improve the game because I want it to be even more incredible.

So, even IF they don't do Day/Night in the EA surface area, I'll still probably think this is the best cRPG so far. Even if they don't fix the rest system and allow party of 6, I'll still feel that way. So... we'll see. I probably will eventually get DOS2 at some point. I probably won't be able to help myself.

GM4Him #818165 01/07/22 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Honestly, I go back and forth about playing it. I love BG3, so I've considered buying it. On the other hand, there's been so much negativity out here about DOS2, and the experience with EA for BG3 hasn't been great... and if they really botch up BG3, will I WANT to buy anymore games from Larian? And then there's the story premise. I'm not a big fan of games where the premise is, "You are working towards becoming a god."

But, others have made me consider it. They talk about how fun the dialogues are and choices and such. Makes me consider it again. But then I hear something I REALLY don't like - such as "After Act 1, you have to choose only 3 companions to continue with you." WHAT?!!! No thank you. That's terrible.

But then I think, "Is it really that big a deal? I mean, in BG2, I pretty much did that naturally. After playing around with a few companions, I eventually chose a set group and finished the game with them - and my decision came pretty early on. So is it REALLY that big a deal to force players to choose at some point who they are going to finish the game with?

So yeah. We'll see. Larian HAS impressed me a lot with BG3. I still consider it probably the best cRPG I've played ever in my life. As much as I talk up others sometimes, I've never been THIS involved in a video game before. EVER. I still keep coming back to this forum day after day trying to think of new ways to improve the game because I want it to be even more incredible.

So, even IF they don't do Day/Night in the EA surface area, I'll still probably think this is the best cRPG so far. Even if they don't fix the rest system and allow party of 6, I'll still feel that way. So... we'll see. I probably will eventually get DOS2 at some point. I probably won't be able to help myself.

DOS2 isn't like old school CRPGs, but it's not trying to be, I think. It's a really creative game on its own that tries to give you absolute freedom in class/combat/traversal customization and encourages you to find new and different approaches to certain problems. You start as a prisoner in Fort Joy, and there's more than one way out. Also, you can teleport yourself to the end of Act 1 almost right off the bat if you know how. Or you can follow the "main" route and attempt all the content. The party-locking is designed to encourage replaying the game because there's certainly a different way for you to accomplish everything you did, and certainly something you missed, and having a different party to go about that material keeps it fresh. Think about all the dialogue choices you didn't choose in BG3 and how they could've created different situations, or how there's multiple ways into the Underdark, or how you can use stealth or barrelmancy or combat or persuasion to get passed encounters. That philosophy is at the core of DOS2.


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GM4Him #818178 01/07/22 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Honestly, I go back and forth about playing it. I love BG3, so I've considered buying it. On the other hand, there's been so much negativity out here about DOS2, and the experience with EA for BG3 hasn't been great... and if they really botch up BG3, will I WANT to buy anymore games from Larian? And then there's the story premise. I'm not a big fan of games where the premise is, "You are working towards becoming a god."

But, others have made me consider it. They talk about how fun the dialogues are and choices and such. Makes me consider it again. But then I hear something I REALLY don't like - such as "After Act 1, you have to choose only 3 companions to continue with you." WHAT?!!! No thank you. That's terrible.

But then I think, "Is it really that big a deal? I mean, in BG2, I pretty much did that naturally. After playing around with a few companions, I eventually chose a set group and finished the game with them - and my decision came pretty early on. So is it REALLY that big a deal to force players to choose at some point who they are going to finish the game with?

So yeah. We'll see. Larian HAS impressed me a lot with BG3. I still consider it probably the best cRPG I've played ever in my life. As much as I talk up others sometimes, I've never been THIS involved in a video game before. EVER. I still keep coming back to this forum day after day trying to think of new ways to improve the game because I want it to be even more incredible.

So, even IF they don't do Day/Night in the EA surface area, I'll still probably think this is the best cRPG so far. Even if they don't fix the rest system and allow party of 6, I'll still feel that way. So... we'll see. I probably will eventually get DOS2 at some point. I probably won't be able to help myself.
Just play it and you'll see. Worst case you can ask Steam for a refund. If anything people on this forum used to scream about BG3 being too close to DOS2 but DOS2 on it's own is....it's just great. It's a bit slow though, like easily 60% of the game is talking and exploration.


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GM4Him #818182 01/07/22 06:44 AM
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Not to drag the OT too much, but there's a lot to like in DOS 2.
Frankly at some point I considered it close to become one of my all time favorites... Until I started to realize that some of the aspects of it I didn't like it were... Well, things I REALLY didn't like.

- I was never particularly fond of its dumb armor system and it got only worse over time
- I found the skill/perk system too steep in its escalation with number bloat and very poorly balanced
- above anything else I absolutely LOATHED the "Diablo-like" randomized itemization. It's something I don't like in general (constantly scavenging for loot is not really my thing not even in Diablo) but that paired particularly terribly with a story-driven, party-based game with a finite number of encounters.
- Also, the game used the infamous Larian chain system as a control scheme, that won't EVER not count as a big negative, even if at the time my hate for it wasn't peaking yet.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
GM4Him #818236 01/07/22 08:41 PM
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Ok. They came down big in price. Now there's no question. Getting DOS2 on Steam.

Question is... What package? The base game for like $18? The original DOS game + DOS2 for $23? Eternal for $50 including soundtrack, maps, etc?

Ah! I just don't know.

Sale ends July 7th.

Last edited by GM4Him; 01/07/22 08:52 PM.
GM4Him #818330 02/07/22 02:37 PM
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Checking back on this thread...My comment that Larian "needed supervision" in their writing was a bit arrogant. Many could envision a story, but to get it from the brain to a script, and from script to execution is just crazy. And then there is directing, and post production, ect.

I repent!

They are growing in their ability to tell a story, and that is all one could expect.


Now I love the creative energy in all of the posts. There are plenty of great ideas that Larian can use to find new ways to connect to their audience. I say audience, because stepping up into a Prime RPG is more story telling then they have previously done.

GM4Him #818337 02/07/22 02:59 PM
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Anyway, was just playing Outward (from the Steam Sale), and the lighting and day / night system work great for immersion.

Yes, I know it's a survival game 1st, and story second, but immersion is the optimal concept here.


Day /night mechanics are simply "par for the course" for any game that wants the player get lost in their world.

No day / night = sub-par game, and not with the times.

GM4Him #824372 31/07/22 05:57 PM
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Throwing in my support for a day/night cycle. Not an easy thing to fully implement, I'm sure, but it is still an important feature to me (and others, obviously).

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Originally Posted by lolwut77
Throwing in my support for a day/night cycle. Not an easy thing to fully implement, I'm sure, but it is still an important feature to me (and others, obviously).

Me too. I also agree with OP we should wake up at night or at dawn. Not at noon? Probably with some injuries and blurred vision. Alternatively we should have a cinematic showing us waking up by the waves at dawn opting to do a short rest until noon so it connects with the night cutscene?

GM4Him #824864 02/08/22 05:59 PM
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Hello, usually I am lurker on this forums. But I feel like I need to add my support here for Day/Night cycle aswell.

My hope and expectation is really low at this point but I do hope, they still re-considering overhauling whole camp system and include day/night cycle. Even if they need to delay game 2 more years for it!
I played and finished older Baldur's Gate multiple times in span of these 20 something years (only game i keep actually returning to) and I wonder why they dumb franchise in this way...
Why take things out and not just build on top of stuff from older games? Why even call it Baldur's Gate 3!? -_-"

People on this boards keep mentioning that having d/n is troublesome because of the multiplayer...but older Bgs have multiplayer aswell(???) with d/n cylce
I finished whole Bg1 multiplayer once with a friend and except fighting around pause/unpause button in combats, I never noticed that having day and night in there was in any way problematic?
(i played mp of Bg2 in 2001 something called tru gamespy? but never finished, then 5 years ago or so i finished BG1 EE mp with friend)...but am telling you, i never seen a problem. So what did i miss? or my memory is bad?? Why is this a problem in this modern times at all?

For me d/n cycle is important. It sets mood, it immerses me, it pokes my imagination how i wanna roleplay various scenarios put in a game. D/n in any game always makes me to have unique experiences and immersions when i wanna replay the game...
The best where i experienced this nowadays was in Pathfinder Kingmaker;..you exploring maps, you fight some enemies, night starts to fall down, music changes slowly, you decide for your party to rest, you put your fancy camp tent anywhere on that map and then you decide to leave the map on first rays of sun. Party members having their little convos during the camping...Sometimes would happen aswell that you get attacked while u trying to sleep (just like in older BG games, right?!). (there are so many spots in BG3 where i wished that i put my own camppp and spend the night! ANd not get tped into some random place! SO WHY I GET THIS IN PATHFINDER GAME AND I CANT GET IT IN BG3? AND OLDER BGs had it?!

d/n music in older Bgs was different too (on same location) and it was great! :") very ambient..am missing some good ambient music...

Anyway to say my final words: As a customer and long time fan of Baldurs Gate; Anyway sorry for sounding so harsh and entitled -_- but... I don't care what is your excuse for dumbing down the franchise. And yes i will call it dumbing it down, despite your fancy stuffs you put in there, because you taking good stuff out from older games (there was nothing ever wrong in D/N) instead building on top of it and having some lame excuses which I have hard time even believing! Dumbing down franchise is never good. Why even tackle this Baldur's gate beast? If you cant do everything?

Am afraid you are mishandling this franchise and missing the whole point which could cost you reputation in the end. I expect better from you Larian -_- stop goofing around and spending sources on silly stuffs (you are all over the place with this game, and you have ALREADY DONE homework for you,OVER 20 years ago, and if you only take a look at older games,and only what you need to is include it,improve on it,not cut it off(except if its some 5th edition stuff i guess)!and put abit of larian modern sprinkle on it) and make good modern roleplaying game, which we will all remember, like we remember and being fond of older BG games after so many years...and many of these memories of mine are connected being immersed with d/n cycles in these games, it left long lasting memory...

disclaimer: I have bought BG3 on steam which i keep testing after every patch and finished it only once, and then feeling depressed still afterwards from lack of day and night cycle, decent camping system, no custom journal,was there even calendar or hours??i don't even remember , no coloring the clothes,no party of 6 (this could be 5th edition problem idk)...meh...NO SLIDERS FOR FACES??? Booo...fr... -_- LARIAAAAAAN!!!! (ps. divinity games were ok and it was yours..but come on this is BALDURS GATEEEE!ARGHH)

GM4Him #824977 03/08/22 12:45 PM
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I'm dup'ing this from the long rest post, because it just goes to show you that the Day / night system effects other mechanics:



If there was actually a day night system or a game clock/calendar resting would actually be more relevant.

Now its just wait for a companion poke..."Huh, yea sure, after we do this and maybe this..."


This is the first Forgotten Realms game without said system.

HUGE step in the wrong direction.

19nevers calling!


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GM4Him #824978 03/08/22 12:48 PM
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I echo others sentiment:

What happens when we get to the city of Baulder's Gate and there are no streetlights, or nocturnal happenings?

Aren't there supposed to vampires in our future? ...do they have tadpoles too now?



I really get the picture of somebody on the Larian team with the mindset of "We'll just make some shit up and the consumer will just have to accept it".

Where is the pride for the craft? There is another post with the video series of how BG1 and 2 were made.

The Bioware team didn't see the game as their job...it was their "baby".

Last edited by Van'tal; 03/08/22 01:07 PM.
Tabyss #825412 05/08/22 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tabyss
People on this boards keep mentioning that having d/n is troublesome because of the multiplayer...but older Bgs have multiplayer aswell(???) with d/n cylce
I finished whole Bg1 multiplayer once with a friend and except fighting around pause/unpause button in combats, I never noticed that having day and night in there was in any way problematic?
(i played mp of Bg2 in 2001 something called tru gamespy? but never finished, then 5 years ago or so i finished BG1 EE mp with friend)...but am telling you, i never seen a problem. So what did i miss? or my memory is bad?? Why is this a problem in this modern times at all?
It has more to do with how Larian wants multiplayer to play. They want players to be able to play against each other and mess around for lols. Which goes completely against the idea of a party based RPG with a story. But that's typical Larian, they bite off more than anyone can chew, and stubbornly refuse to believe something is a bad idea. At least that's my interpretation of it.

I'm one million percent against letting players screw around the map on their own and undermine each other rather than play as a party in a game like this, especially if it means the game can't have a proper D/N cycle. Obviously it will be a game over for everyone if players start competing or killing each other. It should be single party only, with a D/N cycle.

You must gather your party before venturing forth, Larian.

edit: actually some PvP would be great to see, perhaps around a lava/water area. That could finally be eye-opening to just how ridiculous Shove and push effects are.

Last edited by 1varangian; 05/08/22 06:08 PM.
GM4Him #825416 05/08/22 06:53 PM
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It's just Larian that seems to think that multiplayer matches poorly with a day/night cycle.
Or at least that's the excuse they used in an interview. Too bad it's a "design challenge" that was solved the very moment they mentioned:

- have the "clock" in the background stop when any player enters in turn-based mode, so the day will last the same for everyone involved regardless of where they go and what they do
- all players need to agree to take a long rest or to make time pass... Oh wait, that's ALREADY the case now, anyway.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
GM4Him #825635 07/08/22 12:00 AM
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I can't remember if I gave my full approval to this thread, but I want to double-down and say that a Day/Night Cycle in any form, to any depth, would be a welcome, if not necessary, addition to this game and the experience it is offering. +1 to everything in favor of D/N contained herein.


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GM4Him #825636 07/08/22 12:09 AM
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If there's a day/night cycle, does that mean there's a calendar? With the actual passing of days?

And if the days pass by on a calendar, does that mean there should be seasons?

--I'm not trying to be difficult with this question, so please calm down, lol. I'm just asking.

Even if there aren't seasons, though, do the months pass?

And if the months pass, does the game recognize when it's a new year?

And does entering a new year affect the setting? As in, canon dictates important stuff in the Forgotten Realms setting. It really seems to matter what year you're talking about when it comes to the setting. Such and such happened ten years before such and such, which happened a hundred years before... etc.

But putting aside the canon year of the events in this game... if there's a calendar, will it be weird if it takes, say, a year of in-game time to track down the abducted duke? Do things like that start to break apart when there's an operating calendar, ticking off the days?

--again, I'm just asking questions, not trying to rain on your day/night cycle parade. These are just things that cross my mind when I think about the subject.

JandK #825639 07/08/22 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JandK
If there's a day/night cycle, does that mean there's a calendar? With the actual passing of days?

And if the days pass by on a calendar, does that mean there should be seasons?

--I'm not trying to be difficult with this question, so please calm down, lol. I'm just asking.

Even if there aren't seasons, though, do the months pass?

And if the months pass, does the game recognize when it's a new year?

And does entering a new year affect the setting? As in, canon dictates important stuff in the Forgotten Realms setting. It really seems to matter what year you're talking about when it comes to the setting. Such and such happened ten years before such and such, which happened a hundred years before... etc.

But putting aside the canon year of the events in this game... if there's a calendar, will it be weird if it takes, say, a year of in-game time to track down the abducted duke? Do things like that start to break apart when there's an operating calendar, ticking off the days?

--again, I'm just asking questions, not trying to rain on your day/night cycle parade. These are just things that cross my mind when I think about the subject.
Answering your questions in order:
1. Ideally, yes. A calendar would make things very immersive.
2. Ideally, yes. Is it feasible? Probably not. But if the game takes place over a long period of time, seasons would be nice. Wouldn't be the first time in a video game. See: Pokemon, a game which had both a D/N cycle and seasons years ago. There just wasn't much they did with it.
3. Ideally, yes. Skyrim has months passing, as did Oblivion and Morrowind IIRC.
4. I don't think the game clock should allow the game to hit a new year quickly, but, ideally, yes. The Elder Scrolls games do this.
5. Ideally, yes, new years should affect the setting. But, and here's the kicker, BG3 already takes place near the very front of the Forgotten Realms timeline, so there's some creative freedom and all that.
6. The games of the old ways had quest timers and deadlines. To not prevent player freedom, while still preventing the kind of scenarios you are talking about, you can just have really long quest timers. You have a lot of time to accomplish a task, but the timer stops at some length that is just immersion breaking.
7. There are immersion considerations that must be made when implementing a D/N cycle, along with a calendar, along with months, years, seasons, etc. Some of those considerations are timers that make quests make sense in the perspective of the world's time. Or changing weather effects. Or remarks on how long it has been. Or changes in NPC behavior. These changes are good. They are immersive in the nature of providing a sense of time to the world.


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GM4Him #825640 07/08/22 12:40 AM
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I mean, ideally yes there would be months and seasons and years. Also ideally things in the world would be happening on that timescale, which would then affect one's gameplay experience, because otherwise there's no reason for to keep track of time passing in such a way. It would be weird if it takes a year of in-game time to track down the abducted duke and he pretended like it had only been a few days. Some people don't want there to be any time-involvement in quests though, and entire seasons changing without the main questline responding to such time passage starts to become incredibly obvious and immersion-breaking. However, I'd argue that time-passing on weeks+ scales is qualitatively different than individual days & nights in BG3/D&D 5e.

D&D 5e mechanics are intrinsically tied to sleeping and individual days passing, and BG3 in fact already indicates when a full day has passed via long resting. It's always shown to be "going to sleep at the end of the day," so time is already tracked that way. Thus, adding in a better day-night cycle (whether it's a basic 2-state "click here to fast forward to evening," or is a more detailed X real-time minutes = Y in-game minutes with realistic light progression and NPC schedules) would add immersion and additional quest/roleplay/mechanics opportunities while not actually changing anything about the overall time progression in the game.

One could say there is already a day/night cycle in BG3; it's just implemented in the laziest way that prevents actual exploration of the world at night. Tracking the progression of individual days for long-resting purposes doesn't necessitate the tracking of weeks/months/seasons/years, but the two systems could complement each other very well.

Last edited by mrfuji3; 07/08/22 12:42 AM.
GM4Him #825646 07/08/22 01:21 AM
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Seriously. We don't need a whole calendar, etc. I just want the ambiance of night adventure and for my Drow to travel when THEY would most likely travel - NOT in broad daylight so their sunlight sensitivity would mess with them. And stealth missions make more sense at night, like breaking into a goblin camp

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