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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I actually even feel guilty about killing the hag in this game. You bust into her home and kill her to see if this girl who pretty much asked to be messed over by the hag.

Speaking of, the hag has a really interesting Speak with Dead scene, in case you haven't seen it.

She talks about all the people who come to her, making the point that she doesn't hunt these victims down. There's such a bitterness for life in her voice. She talks about showing people their true nature.

I actually love that scene. Really well done, I thought.

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Originally Posted by konmehn
Originally Posted by GM4Him
But you seem to have overlooked the other parts of what I said when I pointed out that bg3 doesn't seem to be holding true to the stereotypes of old D&D.

You didn't give any examples of how they think outside the box. I gave a very distinct example of how they do. See above quote.

Ball's over to you.

No thanks. I think I'm done now. I'm tired of trying to play ball with people on this forum who just want to catch it and do everything in their power to puncture it and ruin it. I said my peace. I gave examples. I refuse to sit here and argue with you.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
No thanks. I think I'm done now. I'm tired of trying to play ball with people on this forum who just want to catch it and do everything in their power to puncture it and ruin it. I said my peace. I gave examples. I refuse to sit here and argue with you.

I asked for dialogue quotes - neither you or Jando gave any. Just your own opinion that you think the writing is A1. You'd think if you were both so confident, you'd have no problem sharing examples. I shared many where it sounds extraordinarily lacking.

who just want to catch it and do everything in their power to puncture it and ruin it

What you're even talking about there, who even knows. Guess we'll never find out, because you bailed under questioning.

But IMO, it reads to me like a very upset kid who had their plastic toy duck burst by a horrible cat, and now it's 'punctured and ruined' and boo-hoo.

Last edited by konmehn; 06/08/22 12:03 AM. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by konmehn
Originally Posted by GM4Him
No thanks. I think I'm done now. I'm tired of trying to play ball with people on this forum who just want to catch it and do everything in their power to puncture it and ruin it. I said my peace. I gave examples. I refuse to sit here and argue with you.

I asked for dialogue quotes - neither you or Jando gave any. Just your own opinion that you think the writing is A1. You'd think if you were both so confident, you'd have no problem sharing examples. I shared many where it sounds extraordinarily lacking.

who just want to catch it and do everything in their power to puncture it and ruin it

What you're even talking about there, who even knows. Guess we'll never find out, because you bailed under questioning.

But IMO, it reads to me like a very upset kid who had their plastic toy duck burst by a horrible cat, and now it's 'punctured and ruined' and boo-hoo.

It was a metaphor, Kid. Lol. Like I'm so much older than you. Haha. It means you're just out here to argue, and I don't want to argue. I don't have to prove anything to you. Go check it out yourself and see what I'm talking about. I don't have time to track down quotes.

Omeluum is a mind flayer who isn't a stereotypical brain eating, mind controlling monster evil race person.

Blurg is his ally and friend, also not a thug warlord just out to crush skulls and eat humans.

The Iron hand clan are terrorists who want to blow up lots of people in Baldur's Gate.

Kith is a mason duergar looking for knowledge.

None of these people are stereotype evil because they are of a certain race.

I'm also thinking about the goblin cook who likes Volo. She's a bit outside the box. Every dang adult tiefling is Leave it Beaver parents, which is unusual and outside the stereotypical tiefling box.

Shoot! One thing Larian is not is stereotypical. I'd like a few more stereotypes please, so I feel at least a little in the world of Faerun.

Last edited by GM4Him; 06/08/22 12:25 AM.
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Production value wise definitely a big step up, but those improvements would have been much much more impactful if they had just stuck with what they knew and made a true DOS 3 and never attempted to take on D&D and the BG series. The game is a bit of a confused mess.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
It was a metaphor, Kid. Lol..

Ah bless, the old ‘kid’ putdown – must be an American thing, is it? Over here, we call that condescending – it’s usually the last resort of someone who has no leg to stand on, so they get smarmy like that. You shot yourself in the foot there squire – you’d think, being all ‘grown up’, you’d have more sense of tact. Too many video games?

I apply that last sentence to your worryingly naïve synopsis of the various one-dimensional creatures you come across.

Exhibit A: ‘Omeluum is a mind flayer who isn't a stereotypical brain eating, mind controlling monster evil race person.’

Like I said, he’s just an overly ‘pure’ version of his kin – the yin to the yang. That’s only complex in a world where you can only see two colours: black and white. Your whole conception of characters seems to be built on DnD or comics – sheltered life is what I read from that.

I’ve worked with all the big names in the IT industry, and many, many different teams. I’ve witnessed every toxic environment, listened to every con artist, been exposed to all the wild and wonderful politics of those who schmooze and those who lose – you sound like someone who’s lived in a cave, and your patronising ‘kid’ putdown is like something you’d hear from a 10 year old. Are you not embarrassed?

You really think if you invert a stereotype, you’re being ‘creative’? Seriously mate?

Come back to me when you understand people and can actually imitate them in words. That’s a real writer. Not someone who simplistically says – ‘Well, you know the illithids were considered evil in DnD, but Larian made one of them actually good: it goes so against the stereotype, my mind just blew up and I’m still picking up the pieces. They’re geniuses.’

I’d hate to be ya, that’s my only thought on that.

Last edited by konmehn; 06/08/22 12:49 AM. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by Ranxerox
The game is a bit of a confused mess.

Another one talking sense. There's a few of them there Gim4Him if ya look around...

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Originally Posted by konmehn
Ah bless, the old ‘kid’ putdown – must be an American thing, is it? Over here, we call that condescending – it’s usually the last resort of someone who has no leg to stand on, so they get smarmy like that. You shot yourself in the foot there squire – you’d think, being all ‘grown up’, you’d have more sense of tact. Too many video games?

I apply that last sentence to your worryingly naïve synopsis of the various one-dimensional creatures you come across.

Exhibit A: ‘Omeluum is a mind flayer who isn't a stereotypical brain eating, mind controlling monster evil race person.’

Like I said, he’s just an overly ‘pure’ version of his kin – the yin to the yang. That’s only complex in a world where you can only see two colours: black and white. Your whole conception of characters seems to be built on DnD or comics – sheltered life is what I read from that.

I’ve worked with all the big names in the IT industry, and many, many different teams. I’ve witnessed every toxic environment, listened to every con artist, been exposed to all the wild and wonderful politics of those who schmooze and those who lose – you sound like someone who’s lived in a cave, and your patronising ‘kid’ putdown is like something you’d hear from a 10 year old. Are you not embarrassed?

You really think if you invert a stereotype, you’re being ‘creative’? Seriously mate?

Come back to me when you understand people and can actually imitate them in words. That’s a real writer. Not someone who simplistically says – ‘Well, you know the illithids were considered evil in DnD, but Larian made one of them actually good: it goes so against the stereotype, my mind just blew up and I’m still picking up the pieces. They’re geniuses.’

I’d hate to be ya, that’s my only thought on that.
Clearly you're an adult having a serious adult conversation here. Your time with all those big IT companies must have given you your great communication skills, they're on full display in this forum about a video game; such a degenerate pass-time.
I'm sorry someone mistook you for a child, throw another tantrum and maybe you'll seem more respectable.

Last edited by Sozz; 06/08/22 01:14 AM.
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Originally Posted by Sozz
Clearly you're an adult having a serious adult conversation here. Your time with all those big IT companies must have given you your great communication skills, they're on full display in this forum about a video game; such a degenerate pass-time.
I'm sorry someone mistook you for a child, throw another tantrum and maybe you'll seem more respectable.

Ok, sure let's remove all the 'adult' talk then mate.

'It was a metaphor, Kid'.

Since you can't actually engage with anything I wrote, riddle me this: how is calling someone a 'kid' being an 'adult'?

Last I checked, that was called being a snob. But you tell me how I'm wrong.

Last edited by konmehn; 06/08/22 01:18 AM.
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Come on, guys. Be better.

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I was joking about the Kid thing. I even said I am not much older. I'm sorry you took it as an insult. It really wasn't meant as one.

Let's get back on topic. The topic really isn't about the creativity of Larian. It is about if the game is leaps and bounds better than DOS 2. And I say, it is. I'm playing DOS 2 now for the first time, and frankly, it's okay. I like it okay, but it's nothing compared to how much I like BG3. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I've NEVER played a video game this much with so many replays, and it's just EA. 600+ hours and I think I am enjoying the Bard patch more than I did the highly anticipated Barbarian patch. I was SO looking forward to that one.

Still waiting for Half-Orc. Come on, Patch 9. Half orc and bigger body types. Smaller too. 😁

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Originally Posted by SgtSilock
There are so many things in this game where I think, 'how did they go from DOS:2 to this?'. DOS:2 was amazing no doubt, but the cinematic style, the companion interactions and party banter, the way the entire game can feel different right from the start, both from a gameplay AND story perspective based on your early choices. I find it pretty mindblowing the generational leap they have made.

Some of the things I LOVE is they finally have companion Banter, in DOS:2 they didn't even bother to really acknowledge anyone else's existence except for the main character, whereas here they are constantly bickering, disagreeing and actually have impact to your party as oppose to just being 'along for the ride'.

BG3 really feels like Divinity Original Sin, and Biowares best RPGS, had a baby and created this game.

Now I know we all have complaints, I myself have posted my own suggestions, but I can't deny the leap from DOS2: to BG3, it's weird how it can feel similar, but at the same time completely different.

You're heading in a good direction here Larian, keep it up we are all rooting for you : )

finally someone admitting bg3 actually a dos2 clone? /s. in all honesty i think game will be much more awesome if it's indeed dos3 or actually baldur's gate settings but not using dnd5e ruleset. i can't recall dos2 having so bad misses early to mid game. even solasta have the same annoying miss rate.

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Originally Posted by Van'tal
Question for thought: Why is it that the moding community understands what the fans want, but Larion Studios does not?

Well, the problem is that the fans are the minority, and Larian is only interested in making money - which won't be as much if they only cater to the fans/minority, unfortunately. So, they instead cater to the unwashed masses, which is unfortunate (for us fans, aka the minority). Very corporate, but that's what happens after a company gets too far above indy status.

Last edited by lolwut77; 06/08/22 06:07 AM.
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Originally Posted by lolwut77
Originally Posted by Van'tal
Question for thought: Why is it that the moding community understands what the fans want, but Larion Studios does not?

Well, the problem is that the fans are the minority, and Larian is only interested in making money - which won't be as much if they only cater to the fans/minority, unfortunately. So, they instead cater to the unwashed masses, which is unfortunate (for us fans, aka the minority). Very corporate, but that's what happens after a company gets too far above indy status.

Tis a bit off topic, but I'll answer with my opinion.

Your question is a bit extreme. I've looked at quite a number of mod potentials for BG3, and many do not appeal to me. I'm a fan of D&D 5e and Forgotten Realms, but there are not a lot of mods that I like.

My point is that there are too many variations for Larian to make everyone happy. I've had many discussions/arguments on this forum with many different people who are all really devoted fans. JandK LOVES BG3 shove mechanics, for example. Me and others hate shove mechanics. Should Larian cater to JandK or me? Reaction prompts. JandK hates them as do others. But Tuco and Ragnarok REALLY want prompts, as does Saito and many others. I'm on the fence and trying to come up with a compromise.

There are many other examples I could give. The point is that there isn't some vast majority solution for LOTS of game mechanics. Opinions vary too much. Thus, modders fill in the gaps.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by lolwut77
Originally Posted by Van'tal
Question for thought: Why is it that the moding community understands what the fans want, but Larion Studios does not?

Well, the problem is that the fans are the minority, and Larian is only interested in making money - which won't be as much if they only cater to the fans/minority, unfortunately. So, they instead cater to the unwashed masses, which is unfortunate (for us fans, aka the minority). Very corporate, but that's what happens after a company gets too far above indy status.

Tis a bit off topic, but I'll answer with my opinion.

Your question is a bit extreme. I've looked at quite a number of mod potentials for BG3, and many do not appeal to me. I'm a fan of D&D 5e and Forgotten Realms, but there are not a lot of mods that I like.

My point is that there are too many variations for Larian to make everyone happy. I've had many discussions/arguments on this forum with many different people who are all really devoted fans. JandK LOVES BG3 shove mechanics, for example. Me and others hate shove mechanics. Should Larian cater to JandK or me? Reaction prompts. JandK hates them as do others. But Tuco and Ragnarok REALLY want prompts, as does Saito and many others. I'm on the fence and trying to come up with a compromise.

There are many other examples I could give. The point is that there isn't some vast majority solution for LOTS of game mechanics. Opinions vary too much. Thus, modders fill in the gaps.

Speaking of Mods are you playing with any on DOS 2. There are a number of excellent ones that really improve the experience.

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Originally Posted by Ranxerox
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by lolwut77
Originally Posted by Van'tal
Question for thought: Why is it that the moding community understands what the fans want, but Larion Studios does not?

Well, the problem is that the fans are the minority, and Larian is only interested in making money - which won't be as much if they only cater to the fans/minority, unfortunately. So, they instead cater to the unwashed masses, which is unfortunate (for us fans, aka the minority). Very corporate, but that's what happens after a company gets too far above indy status.

Tis a bit off topic, but I'll answer with my opinion.

Your question is a bit extreme. I've looked at quite a number of mod potentials for BG3, and many do not appeal to me. I'm a fan of D&D 5e and Forgotten Realms, but there are not a lot of mods that I like.

My point is that there are too many variations for Larian to make everyone happy. I've had many discussions/arguments on this forum with many different people who are all really devoted fans. JandK LOVES BG3 shove mechanics, for example. Me and others hate shove mechanics. Should Larian cater to JandK or me? Reaction prompts. JandK hates them as do others. But Tuco and Ragnarok REALLY want prompts, as does Saito and many others. I'm on the fence and trying to come up with a compromise.

There are many other examples I could give. The point is that there isn't some vast majority solution for LOTS of game mechanics. Opinions vary too much. Thus, modders fill in the gaps.

Speaking of Mods are you playing with any on DOS 2. There are a number of excellent ones that really improve the experience.

Nope. Wanted the pure Dos 2 experience.

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OP, first I had a kind of gasping, how dare you to say something with a generally positive vibe on this forum? grin

But yes, I concur and I would not only prefer BG3 to D:OS 2 in any aspect, I would even say that BG3 in itself is/will be a good game!

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Originally Posted by konmehn
Originally Posted by JandK
I disagree, and I suspect you haven't seen as much of her character as there is to offer.

Ah, here’s the guy that saying other people were ‘bitching’ on another thread for expressing an opinion.

Nice to have a reaction from you at last bud – I can definitely rate your opinion highly, given that you try to tear the throats off everyone on this forum, in your insipidly highfalutin way.

I’ve read all Minthara’s opening dialogues – you’d want to have the IQ of a gnat not to notice she’s pushing the evil agenda so hard it’s almost painful. Your stoic defence of her one-dimensional-ness is as much as I’d expect from one who’s whole attitude to forum debate is one-note slander of anyone who writes something you don’t like hearing.

Anyway, I’ve made my point, you’ve made yours. Hope you don’t write any books any time soon pal, that’s all I’m saying.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
First of all, let me point out that D&D was historically made based on alignment. Goblins bad. Elves good.

‘First off’ let me point out that whether it’s called DnD or anything else, it’s a story mate. And all good writers do this thing called ‘thinking outside the box’ – not within it, which is what you seem to prescribe.

What was Irenicus again? An elf, from what I remember. Didn’t seem like such a nice elf, did he? Maybe that's why he actually seemed interesting and not some cliché like evil-Drow Minthara.

I’m only in my 30s – you’d think old boys like yourselves (correct me if I’m wrong) would have seen more of ‘real life’ to know people don’t just act like ultra-good elves or ultra-evil Mintharas.

Hi, I'm twice your age, and yes, you are correct, people don't always act ultragood/evil. However, I have also seen enough of life to know that sometimes people do. I've seen enough to know that sometimes, they can be trying to be "good", and wind up hurting more than they help. I guess the real world is a classic example of "bad writing"?

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