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#825629 06/08/22 11:46 PM
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JandK Offline OP
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I really think the game should offer a free feat to all characters at level one. Not a stat increase, but a feat of some sort, maybe even from a select list. Something to add flavor to the character and change it up a little.

I'm guessing there's data on certain feats that don't get selected that often. Those are the type of feats that should be available for free at level one. They're nice for flavor, but it's typically hard to justify taking them in place of better mechanical options.

Things like:

1. Athlete,
2. Lightly armored,
3. Mobile,
4. Skilled,
5. Weapon master, and...

...I also think it would be nice to be able to choose one of the initiate feats.

Is it so bad to want to play, say, a cleric who happens to be proficient with a longsword or a warhammer, but isn't an elf or dwarf? Call me crazy, but I just don't think that's going to break the game. If anything, I think it will make the game a thousand times more interesting.

Just my opinion, but for what it's worth, it's a strongly held opinion.

*

I also think there should be a feat that gives us Shovel as a permanent familiar. I like his character that much.

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I suspect that the very goal of 5e (compared at least to 3) is to reduce amount of choices player is supposed to make at the beginning of the game. For accessibility sake.

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+1

The amount of flexibility and decision making in 5e characters is criminally low. I really dislike how they make players choose between ASIs and feats.

I also agree with having a limited selection feats at level 1, removing the temptation to pick one of the OP feats. It'll give characters something extra to do at low levels which seems to match with Larian's philosophy, and as you say allows for some of the weaker-but-often-thematically-cooler feats to be picked.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
I suspect that the very goal of 5e (compared at least to 3) is to reduce amount of choices player is supposed to make at the beginning of the game. For accessibility sake.

I appreciate some of the ease of 5e. In fact, I love the concentration stuff. I used to hate the endless buffing.

Still. There are a couple areas I think need improvement. The free feat issue is one of them. I don't think that's overly complicated, and I truly believe most players would appreciate it.

Another issue I think is a problem has to do with ability checks versus ability saving throws. It's not entirely clear on the surface for a new player.

For instance, how many ability checks are there in BG3 right now?

Initiative checks?
Shove attempts?

Are those ability checks? I think they are. Anything else?

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Originally Posted by JandK
Another issue I think is a problem has to do with ability checks versus ability saving throws. It's not entirely clear on the surface for a new player.

For instance, how many ability checks are there in BG3 right now?

Initiative checks?
Shove attempts?

Are those ability checks? I think they are. Anything else?
All dialogue checks are ability checks, as are perception (or investigation/nature/arcana) checks to notice things in the world, stealth checks to avoid notice, lockpicking and trap disarming (is this still Dex-sleight of hand or is it Dex-thieves tools?). Essentially, every d20 roll that is not associated with an attack or a spell/ability/trap/death saving throw is an ability check.

I don't disagree that the types of checks, and many other D&D 5e mechanics, should be explained better in the tutorial/character creation screen.

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Variant Human?


add hexblade warlock, pls
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Originally Posted by JandK
I also think there should be a feat that gives us Shovel as a permanent familiar. I like his character that much.

I have been saying for almost 2 years now that scroll should be changed to a once per long rest item of some kind.

Shovel mentions it's previous master never summoned it for anything fun. To me that implies it was repeatedly summoned which isn't possible from a single use scroll, and if it was summoned even once before the scroll would have been destroyed and we couldn't use it.

I plan on modding it later after release. Before I do though I may try a run where I try to keep it alive the whole way now that familiars don't despawn on long rest.

OcO #825658 07/08/22 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by OcO
Originally Posted by JandK
I also think there should be a feat that gives us Shovel as a permanent familiar. I like his character that much.

I have been saying for almost 2 years now that scroll should be changed to a once per long rest item of some kind.

Shovel mentions it's previous master never summoned it for anything fun. To me that implies it was repeatedly summoned which isn't possible from a single use scroll, and if it was summoned even once before the scroll would have been destroyed and we couldn't use it.

I plan on modding it later after release. Before I do though I may try a run where I try to keep it alive the whole way now that familiars don't despawn on long rest.

Except the familiars not despawning thing doesn't work on Shovel, believe it or not.

Shovel still goes away after a long rest.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
All dialogue checks are ability checks, as are perception (or investigation/nature/arcana) checks to notice things in the world, stealth checks to avoid notice, lockpicking and trap disarming (is this still Dex-sleight of hand or is it Dex-thieves tools?). Essentially, every d20 roll that is not associated with an attack or a spell/ability/trap/death saving throw is an ability check.

I don't disagree that the types of checks, and many other D&D 5e mechanics, should be explained better in the tutorial/character creation screen.

So a skill check is the same thing as an ability check? That helps clear things up.

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Not against this, but I think maybe there could be a cost associated? The game just already feels so easy at the start, giving us a feat, while EXCELLENT for creating whatever kind of build you want early on (and I respect that mentality), might make things too easy.


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Being so stingy with feat picks is one of 5e's biggest weaknesses. Feats are FUN. They're more fun than ASI's that just change some numbers. Feats give you new possibilities and unique things to do. They help define a PC.

So yes, any change that allows more feat picks would be a good one.

I wouldn't worry about game difficulty becoming too easy if PCs get extra feats. Character building is a separate issue. Difficulty can and will get adjusted and tweaked regardless.

And I really hope they separate Feats and ASI's again in the next edition of D&D.

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+1

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I feel little torn right now ...

On one hand, i would like to have some feats ... bcs it would certainly make my playthroughs a lot more interesting ...

On the other hand tho, the list you provided isnt really convincing ... i mean i know its just an example, but i honestly dont quite understand why even limit it ... from this list i would possibly end up with Skilled most of the time. :-/

Yes, i know that every Fighter and Barbarian would likely pick Great Weapon Master ... question is: So what? laugh
Every Sorcerer, or Bard (and likely some Wizards) would at least for EA purposes pick Warlock Initiate aswell.
Quite honestly im not sure what feat would Ranger pick ... possibly Mobile or Weapon Master (if it would still provide Stat incerase).

Im also asking myself if starting with Random Stat rolls (wich was promised by Larian) AND free feat would make our characters too powerfull ...
I mean i totally plan to start my first game as Half-Orc Barbarian with rolled 18Str +2 from Racial bonus ... imagine having feat on top of that seems almost crazy ... on the other hand tho, why not? laugh

I gues it would be +1 from me ... but i wouldnt restrict it, if we would we would most likely end up with passive and dull choices, and then there is no point. :-/


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
On one hand, i would like to have some feats ...

On the other hand tho, the list you provided isnt really convincing ... i mean i know its just an example, but i honestly dont quite understand why even limit it ... from this list i would possibly end up with Skilled most of the time. :-/

Yes, i know that every Fighter and Barbarian would likely pick Great Weapon Master ... question is: So what? laugh [...]

I gues it would be +1 from me ... but i wouldnt restrict it, if we would we would most likely end up with passive and dull choices, and then there is no point. :-/

Originally Posted by JandK
I really think the game should offer a free feat to all characters at level one. Not a stat increase, but a feat of some sort, maybe even from a select list. Something to add flavor to the character and change it up a little.

I'm guessing there's data on certain feats that don't get selected that often. Those are the type of feats that should be available for free at level one. They're nice for flavor, but it's typically hard to justify taking them in place of better mechanical options.
Seems like JandK is operating from the premise that developers can (and in this case should) limit OP options that players would otherwise practically always choose, if removing those options makes the game more flavorful and encourages the exploration of different options. I agree; players shouldn't always be responsible for self-limiting themselves. I assume that @JandK's list isn't complete; I could probably go through the 5e feats list and add 5+ more that are rarely picked.

It's also partially a balance thing, similar to why Point Buy exists. Playing in a party where another person is just so much more powerful can be disheartening. Combat feats are almost always applicable, but things like Actor, Athlete, Dungeon Delver, Linguist are fairly specialized and so your character might not often, if ever, really have the time to shine. However, people could really want such feats for added roleplay if they think those feats tie into the character's background, personality, and/or skills.

Perhaps, instead of a dedicated select list, each Background (and/or Class?) could come with a smaller list of applicable feats. This way they'd tie more into the backstory/training of your character, rather than arbitrarily choosing a feat because the game tells you to.

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The problem I see with this suggestion is that a character with racial boni / abilities & a feat at level 1 seems a bit overpowered. I know some people here like that, but I'm not one of them.
Also, it would make the variant human (if Larian implements it) obsolete.

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I agree that there are a number of not-great feats that would give great flavour to a character’s back story but that a player would find it almost impossible to justify picking over more powerful ones in the early game, or even at all.

I quite like this idea of being able to pick from a list of non-ASI feats at character creation, though can see it might be challenging to pick the exact list of underpowered feats that were suitable for this purpose but wouldn’t break balance.

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Originally Posted by Kendaric
The problem I see with this suggestion is that a character with racial boni / abilities & a feat at level 1 seems a bit overpowered. I know some people here like that, but I'm not one of them.
Also, it would make the variant human (if Larian implements it) obsolete.

How about postponing it until level 5 then? It doesn't have to be at level 1.

Or we get to choose a free feat when we reach a specific milestone in the campaign. Maybe 2-3 times.

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Hm. Fun thought exercise.

Originally Posted by Kendaric
The problem I see with this suggestion is that a character with racial boni / abilities & a feat at level 1 seems a bit overpowered. I know some people here like that, but I'm not one of them.
Also, it would make the variant human (if Larian implements it) obsolete.

Variant Human could just get a second bonus feat at level 1. Suddenly not obsolete anymore.

Story milestone feat sounds good at first, until you consider that people are likely to metagame their playthroughs around its existence (and openly spoiling its existence for everyone for build optimization purposes). Minor issue at best though.

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It doesn't have to be a secret to spoil, though. Larian can openly say "Hey guys you will get an extra feat that you choose from this list at the end of each act, plan accordingly".

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
limit OP options that players would otherwise practically always choose
Im affraid this isnt possible tho ...

Once you remove some feats people would "allways choose" ... they just start "allways picking" something else.
Would that mean remove that aswell?

And again, and again, until we have only irellevant feats that would practicaly give nothing too interesting?

Like:
Lightly Armoured ... i mean who would take that?
Only Wizard or Sorcerer as far as i know dont have this from the start (feel free to corect me) ... but the problem is, that all robes prepared for Wizard or Sorcerer will be clothing > wasted feat.

Athlete & Weapon master ...
Problem i have with theese is that they also incerases Strength or Dexterity ability score ... seems MUCH more usefull for fighter classes.

Mobile
Perfect choice for combat focused characters aka "the thing everyone would pick" ... i mean just name single class that would never ever ever use more mobility, ignoring difficiulty terain, and canceling AOO. laugh

Skilled
This is something i like the least ... class restrictions for skills are there for some reason (even tho i admit that i dont know it laugh ) and quite honestly i would dare to boldly presume that people would pick the same stuff over and over: either Athletic, or Acrobacy to better resist showe ... perception to find hidden stuff ... and insight to unlock special conversations ...

---

And thats what i dislike about it, i mean the idea itself is good ...
But who should decide wich is "low enough to give freely" and wich is "too OP" ?

What is stronger anyway:
Barbarian that potentialy can give HUGE damage, but also can often miss (and yes i know its not that often as Fighter bcs of Reckless Attack)?
Barbarian that can potentialy hold Rage for much longer bcs he have much more movement?
Barbarian that is much more resistant to showe, and have two more bonuses for skillchecks in conversations?
Or Barbarian that have even more bonuses for starting Ability Scores compared to others?

I dont think this can be answered definitively ...

And therefore i would vote for custom Feats, rather than pick existing.
Have you played Fallout: New Vegas? There is something called "wild wasteland" that changes random encounters to ... well, a little wilder things. laugh
Things like that i would like ... basicaly just flavour, or visual changes ... but nothing too deep from mechanical perspective.


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