Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback WOW so Baldur's Gate has gone from fun GAMe to borderline cartoon porn?

As was mentioned, they showed us the Kama Sutra poses in the one of the first teasers, so people clutching their pearls now seems a little odd.

I find most the dialogues with the Duergar more offensive than any temp sex scene with Minthara. I have no idea what the end product will look like, how explicit or how inarticulate the scenes will be, but I think if they're actually there to tell a story, Larian should go ham.

People shouldn't be afraid of being a little offended now and then anyway.

There is one thing i dont understand ...
People demanding "longer romance development" ...

I mean, i dont really want to get personal here, but did you know that romance dont have to (and healthy one usualy dont) end after first sex? O_o

I suspect that what people asking for longer development mean is that they want more development before the first night. I wonder if that comes from pattern of games typically saving the first night and the official forming of the relationship for the end of the game? Once you get that and maybe a couple interactions after, then the romance part of the interactions tend to end, beyond maybe one or two repeatable lines or comments. So maybe that request is just due to people feeling instinctively like the party scenes are the end of the romance, because that's how other games of this sort have trained their expectations? If you think about it, it's actually not just games. In most media involving romance, the actual formation of the couple is saved for the end as a climactic moment. When was the last movie you watched where the main romantic characters were truly together before the end of the movie? Usually if the characters were together, they're estranged or the relationship is on the rocks, it's somehow fractured. The romantic plot is about them repairing the fracture to come together again by the end. And look how often in serial TV is the romantic tension the will-they, won't they? And when they actually do get together, if the show keeps going significantly past that point, usually the relationship breaks up and they redo the plot or replace the love interest with a new one entirely. It's rare for media, especially popular media to follow a stable relationship significantly through its run. Add to that the fact that after the first night, we don't get many romantic nods beyond one conversation, it seems. So again, people's narrative instincts are making them see the first night at the party as the end of the meaningful romance portion of things.

Having said all that, I actually don't think the romantic development we've seen is that bad. I've only seen Gale and Shadowheart's so far, but I think it makes sense for Lae'zel to be reticent and not really show romantic interest until the end. Same with Astarion, though I haven't actually had him in my party very much so I'm sure I've just not seen any scenes that might set up his romance. Wyll, I have him in my party a lot and he also doesn't have much setup that I've seen. But looking specifically at Gale and Shadowheart, I think they're both very well done romances so far. Gale's romance effectively starts at the Weave scene. I found it a really good moment. It was so good that I, someone who basically never romances guys in games, actually decided to do romance him then and there. From there you get a handful of other romantic interactions throughout the act that I think are very cute and effective. I think that the sex scene at the party is earned by that point and really feels like the culmination of a budding romance. The way it reads to me, if you forgive him for dropping the Mystra stuff the morning after, you're a full on couple from there on out. That's very interesting to me and I look forward to seeing that play out in the full release. I really suspect that however consciously, Gale is manipulating us for our help and the conflict of our relationship is how much is he able to truly care for us compared to his longing for Mystra.

Shadowheart meanwhile, she also doesn't get many scenes that really imply romance, just the opportunity to flirt here and there. Her party scene is a traditional beginning to a romance. And a really good one too. It's the classic 'moment you both let your guard down' scene, where camaraderie turns into something more. Structurally, it's her equivalent to Gale's Weave scene, the moment when the romance truly starts. It's also not a sex scene. The way you refer to it in the conversation after makes it really seem as though you both just kissed and that's it.

I suspect that the fact everything for everyone comes to a head at the party. It was absolutely worse in early patches though. I just went through the party scene and those interactions do feel more natural overall.

This has got to be one of the most asinine complaints I've seen.

The game is rated M and says in the description on Steam that it has nudity and sexual themes. Don't act like this was some kind of surprise.

Don't want to see sex? Then turn down offers for sex. Simple as.

That would be my suspection aswell ...
I just dont like it to be honest. :-/ It just feels wrong, dunno how else to say it.

I mean, if you think about it ...
In Mass Effect for example ... they go sleep together just before final mission ... i would totally get the message "this is suicide mission, there is no guarantee we will come back, lets spend our time together" ... makes perfect sense ...
EXCEPT!
This is the way you can describe EVERY MISSION during whole game.
I mean, yeah risk is probably biger in the last one ... but wouldnt you feel like an idiot if you would "wait for your special time with Liara" just to she shooted in the head (or worse) litteraly 1 mission before that?
An lorewise, that can totally happen! I know we as players know well enough that our hero will last to the finish ... not exactly sure about our romance partner tho ... is there any logical reason to wait?

Now dont get me wrong, i totally get when one of characters wants to "be sure" this is what they want ... just as Liara in first Mass Effect game, just as Aleister in Dragon Age, just as Shadowheart in BG-3 ...
That is totally fine!

But if two mature ... beings, who are spending every second of their life together, facing life threatening dangers on daily (hourly? :D) basis, are litteraly living on borrowed time and know well enough that they can die any time even if there will be no fighting ... both agree that they WANT to sleep with each other ...
Give me single reason they shouldnt. I dont have any.
It may sometimes raise a red flag about health of their relationship ... 100% agree ... but as we know, not all relationships are model examples.

//Edit:
What im trying to say is: Im glad Larian allowed our characters to have sex ... it feels right.
Cant say i really need explicitly show how they do it ... but i dont mind that either.

To me, this whole "lets wait for perfect moment, and then NEVER mention it again" is stupid concept, that should end, and therefore, this is step in right direction. :P

I agree that the tone of this topic is extreme and hostile and over the top, but it's not as simple as you make it out. I would like the ability to have romance without seeing two pixel models doing it. Romance does not equal sex. You can have lots of romance in a story and zero sex. You can also have lots of sex and zero romance.

Also, there are story and dialogue wrapped into the sex events in BG3 that you miss unless you watch the sex scenes. That's also frustrating because now I have to miss story stuff if I don't want to watch naked pixel people doing it.

I am also not keen on the vulgarity of the duergar. I get it. Story wise, it fits, but I don't like it and would love to have a beep out system so I don't have to hear or read their vulgarity everywhere I go in Grymforge

This could all be solved by Larian providing an option to fade to black and censor foul language.

Do they have the right to not do this and to leave as is? Absolutely. No question. Would it be nice if they provided the censor option? Absolutely. I would have a ton more respect for them if they did.

Good thing we have both. ^_^
And some things in between aswell.

No you dont ...
You can simply hit spacebar few times and skip through scenes you dont like ... what part of story are you missing then?
The way *insert companion name here* moan? I believe you can survive that. :P

Sure ... concidering how many people stream this game, and how much easier it would make their lives.

I mean romance is fundamentally not a logical thing. People are weird and inconsistent and do things for reasons that sometimes only make sense to themselves individually, or stop making sense the moment they put it into words. Add to that high-stakes, high-pressure situations and people only get weirder. There's also the issue that sometimes the companion doesn't really know if they want to sleep with our character or not. RPG companions are usually mired in trauma and issues of one sort or another that they need to work through and figure out. Or they just haven't figured out how they feel about us yet. Here's an example. When my grandmother was stressed, she would often not want to eat. She'd just skip meals. When I'm stressed, I immediately start looking for something to eat. People react to stressful times differently. A high-stress time could just ruin the mood because they have too much on their mind. Plus there's also the narrative aspect of it. It does make sense that from a narrative standpoint, getting together with your love interest serves as part of the big climax of a story.

Ultimately though, I agree there should be more variety. I like that in the dragon age games, most of your romantic relationships pretty much lock in by the middle of the game, give or take.

Oh my, just wait until you grow up and find out about taxes...

"Good thing we have both." Meh. I'm not impressed thus far with the romances in BG3. As said before, they're just very abrupt. There's no lead-in or flirting or nothing. It's just BAM! "Wanna do it?" Shadowheart has a little, and I think they may have added a little more with a few others, but it's not much. Frankly, it just seems like ALL the companions are easy. But then, it's been awhile since I even tried.

"No you don't..." Well, to be fair, it's been awhile since I attempted any romance with any character because I simply don't like them. I seem to recall that there were some dialogue/story elements with Astarion in particular and Minthara for sure - little hints and clues about who they are, their pasts, and so forth. I don't think you can skip without missing some of the dialogues, but again, I can't remember.

Sure... concidering how many people stream this game..." Yes. This is definitely a reason why they would benefit from such a feature. I mean, I could care less about that personally, but streaming is a HUGE advertising platform for any game, so if they want even MORE free marketing, providing censor options to cut out sex scenes and vulgar duergar/anyone's dialogues would be good. They could then even market it as something parents could allow their kids to play provided they simply use the parental control settings. So, although I don't care much about the censorship for streaming aspect, I DO want this game to succeed and make Larian a ton of money so they make a BG4. Thus, I do care to some degree about this aspect of the topic.

I'm not sure why we have to keep compairing this game to other games? We aren't talking about other games. We're talking about Baldur's Gate which I clearly stated that my personal opinion does not belong having sex scense. Simple as that. I don't care if your other games have sex in them. I'm talking about Baldur's Gate.
What am I suposed to tell my niece when she walks in while I'm trying to play? "Oh hey sweetie piss off I'm playing a game that for no reason has adult content that is really not needed."?
It's very distasteful in Baldur's Gate. That's my view.
Like the ogre and bugbear weren't enough of a surprise? lol. That part was obviously done by someone with a big dick and ego as can clearly be told by the option to coment on the bugbears small dick. How tasteful is that? Yes that's absolutely nescesarry to bully small dick people in a video game. Yes I do feel persoanlly attacked by this because yes, unfortunately I am under the average size. I never thought I would actually feel personally attacked/bllied by a video game but there you go. Like I don't have enough of a problem with it that you have to make fun of me with a game? Nice and tasteful.
But that's another story. My entire point is just that I personally don't feel sex should be in Baldur's Gate. Don't soil the name/franchise. Make a new game and have your silly fun there.
I do definitely like the idea of a slider/switch that has been mentioned by some to turn the crap off if we want to.
For the record I most definitely have tried sexual things in my D&D sessions. Not literally in person but in the game. lol. I'm human (unfortunately) so yes I do also desire sex. Just not in Baldur's Gate. I am very sexual and quite perverted as a person so I totally understand this side of things.

Baldur's Gate always had at least implied sex, BG2 had implied player sex. Heck, you could even have a baby (or rather, if I remember correctly, forced to have one if you wanted to ramance the poor elf), talk about things that don't belong. If you draw a line at watching them you can just skip them or not choose to partake in the first place. Or wait and see if Larian decide for an off switch.

Uhm, not sure what to say here. Never did I look at the scene and went "yeah, that's a small dick joke right there, ha!", more like "yikes, won't be opening that door anymore, thanks.". Not sure what the intention was behind it.

Like I said, the sex was always there. Hells, even the whole concept of the story was that a diety went on and sired tons of children. There are ways to skip the scenes and I hope there will be a toggle for those of us who won't want to watch it for whatever reason. If not - no big deal for me personally, I have both hands on the desk and can skip either with a keyboard or a mouse if needed

Well, gaining their reputation is the lead up, and I can see it working better for someone else if one is consciously aiming to get together with a companion. So getting to know, and liking each other seems systemised, which I find awkward.

Romance scene being a set thing for ALL companions at the same time makes it very artificial and awkward on top of it.

And even a softer romance, like with Shadowheart, feels like a jarring shift with it being really first time we talk to each other. There is little show of sympathy or even interest, and then sudden romantic alone time. I don’t think the scene is bad in itself, it’s just all lead up are notifications about reputation gain.

Dragon Age: Origins had similar set up and aside from embarrassingly awkward cutscenes they worked well. Morrigan was quick to kiss and sex, but it made sense - both in the moment and in retrospect. Characters were aware of your affairs, but their responses felt authentic.

BG3 is just so very clunky in the character interactions. They don’t feel like people, and your conversation options don’t feel like conversations. Which I think at the core of my issues - romances don’t feel like interactions. It feels like a limited choice of romance/sex scenes depending on unrelated quest choices. You have done choices X, Y, Z so you get a romance scene with companion B.

I think it is backwards - you should get to know a companion, get attached to him and her, and then try to win them over, not get one “assigned” with a potential to get to know and like them later, if you try to make a move now.

What is this sort of argument? About "What I am going to say to my niece/child". I see it a lot recently. Hard to understand how it corresponds to the topic. There are a lot of things that are not marked for children. And you said not to compare games, and yet you compare with the first BG games, which were made by a different studio 20 years ago. The setting is the same, and as was said above, this setting includes all themes which BG3 has, just not as graphically.

What you said really makes sense, but doesn't the approach "you should get to know a companion, get attached to him and her, and then try to win them over" also feel a bit strange? I remember it from POE 2 and Bioware games. This feels a bit unnatural too because you do not have any romantic relationship until one exact moment in the middle/end of the game. I agree that it is done a bit awkward in BG3 right now, but it looks fresher. What if the scene in act 1 which we get is just the beginning of complex relationships that will grow throughout the game? And the beginning of the relationship can sometimes feel sudden.

Vitani the part about the small dick joke is right there in selectable text option. It literally mentions somethng about him being small.

Garold the argument about "What I am going to say to my niece/child" is just that. What do you tell them when they accidently see what is on the screen of your computer because you were not expecting it yourself so you just have to tell them flat out that they have to stay away from you and your computer while you play the game because you never know when something is going to come on the screen. No pun intended. lol. As for saying don't compare games and then comparing BG3 to BG1 and 2 well that's just obvious. They go together. That's part of the point. I guess you're not seeing that. Yes they are made by different companies, but they do still go together. As for the sex and childbirth someone else mentioned, yeah that's in there but you don't actually see anything. That's kinda the point here. The seeing it happen. Yes I can skip through it. Yes I will be in the future. That doesn't change the fact that I still have to pay for someone to get paid to spend hours getting off as they create cartoon porn that I then get forced to pay for. Thankfully I did not pay for this "game". My nephew got it as a gift. He and I play together sometimes. Like I really want to watch porn with my nephew? Lol. NO. And what exactly happens with multiplayer romance options anyway? Can he and I do a threeway with Minthara? That sounds like something I really wanna do with my nephew. No thank you. I'm not into multi-partner sex with anyone thanks.

Yup ... or it can flip their slut switch.
As you said, variety is the key here. :3

---

Do you often watch porn / brutal gore / super scarry horrors ... with your niece in the same room?
Do you often read out loud from playboy, or other mature magazines ... with your niece in the same room?
Do you masturbate in front of her?
No?
Didnt think so ...
Maybe that would be the key?

I mean, why should "playing 18+ videogame" have litteraly any different approach then "watching 18+ movie", "reading 18+ magazine", or simply "doing 18+ stuff"?
Its all inapropriate in front of that child, isnt it? O_o

ESRB rating is there for a reason ... if you refuse to follow it, dont blame the product, its your fault.

Let me guess, you and your nephew don't kill anyone in the game, because it would count as a serial-killer duo and you really don't want to practice cartoon murder together with your nephew? Damn..

Oh, didn't remember that. Like I said - done it once and avoid the door like the plague now.

Uhm...well, if you play a 18+ game with a minor you kind of do so on your own responsibility. That's what it boils down to. You are responsible for what minors under your care do and/or watch. The rating is clear, the game has sexual content, if you don't want a minor playing with you see it choose another game. BG3 is not a game designed to be played with minors.

My problem with your argument was that you just tried to say that there is no place for such content, that it is distasteful, and so on, instead of "Yeah, this content limits my possibilities to play". It was hard to understand, what is the main problem for you? And this is not only about you. Other people also used this argument, but it does not look valid, because of how much content is done with M rating and is not supposed to be played with children or be viewed by them. This does not make the content objectively bad, just not content that suits them. "What am I supposed to tell my niece when she walks in while I'm trying to play?" vs "I usually have underaged people with me when playing, so including a filter or off switch would be useful for me" - same meaning, but less aggressive and shows what you are implying much better, I think.

As for BG1, 2, and 3 go together - yeah, I do not get it. But I would genuinely love to hear your explanation, no joking.