Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback WOW so Baldur's Gate has gone from fun GAMe to borderline cartoon porn?

No it doesn't. Art is communication - if you fail to communicate what you want to the audience you are aiming for then you have failed as an artist. If art wasn't taught we would still be at the stage when people would draw crude drawings on cave walls, and bang rocks together. Whatever art one enjoyed, it is build of hindered of years of progress and learning. You can set any objective you want, but we live in pre-made world, and make art to communicate with pre-defined people. You always work within confines of physics, and psychology of people you will communicate with. There isn't really such thing as making art for yourself - a piece of music is to be listened, poem or book is to be read, movie is to be watched etc. If one makes art just for his or her own entertainment for making it they are not artists. Just as a cook is not really a cook if someone fries meat because they enjoy the activity, and not to craft a meal for someone.

Being a good draftsman doesn't make you an artist. Nor does your command of grammar make you an author. Failure to communicate with an audience is not what art is about, unless you're main concern is satisfying an audience with your art.

Art comes first, a product comes second. Unless you are trying to create a product in the first place. CRPGs were not in a high demand until DOS2 popped and for me it is an indicator that Larian make games firstly out of passion. But even if we put this distinction between fine art and commercial art aside, an artist doesn't have to pay any toll to anyone. I didn't say anything about them being shielded from criticism. What I said and meant is that criticism does not obligate an artist to change technique for the sake of either "humanity" or "fashion" or "all that is holy". If its commercial art the product won't sell, but here the numbers say otherwise. If its fine art it is even more so independent from outsider's opinion. There were a lot of artists who got recognition only after their death, take Van Gogh for example.

Failing as an artist doesn't mean you are not an artist and your piece is not an art. You are twisting concepts here or there is clearly a communication barrier. Should we now say that you are not a forum member because you failed at communication for a mere moment? Or is it applicable to any of us? Of course no.

I think you're wrong about art on most levels. What your describing is a very narrow idea of art. Art absolutely can mean making whatever you want. I agree that if an artist wants to convey something and fails to do so, then they've failed in that artistic endeavor, I think thats the only way to measure something so subjective. But that doesn't make it not art, it just makes it bad art. A child scribbling on the walls is art just as much as Banksy creating finely honed graffiti. A cook frying meat for the fun of it is still a cook, they've still cooked food, and that's all being a cook is. Doing something badly doesn't mean you're not an artist or a cook, it just means you're bad at it. But philosophers have been debating the meaning of art and what makes art art for probably as long as there have been philosophers to do so. I don't think we're going to find any consensus on the subject here.

It does, actually, until there is at least one person in the world who can identify the beauty and the idea behind your work.
There are no checkboxes for qualifying individually as an artist, because art is just a way to express thoughts and ideas. A child can do that, and if another child admires the drawing then its already an art piece within this two-children system. At least this is how I see it.

EDIT: For a draftsman it is all the same. Usually 2D artist participates in a transitory phase in the general pipeline and his drafts are moved to the 3D guys, so their work isn't even a final product. But it can still be a beautiful environmental piece for example and I am sure that qualifies as an art.

EDIT 2: I love how the discussion shifted from a rant to sex and now to art

No but you have to be a good craftsman to be an artist, same as you need precise command of language to be a writer.

I wouldn't call someone incapable of creating a good art (like a baby) an artist, just the same as I wouldnt call someone who can drive a driver, just because they sat behind the wheel and crashed. Nd if an artist create a crap art (happens to the best) it is in everyone beat interest to correct them early.

Art can absolutely be taught and it can be judged. There is of course a different matter of objectives, inaccassibility or perhaps too fresh vision.

But come one - it's BG3. It mostly just compiles popular stuff from previous popular titles. It is as much of a wide appeal commercial product as one can get.

Edit. Ok scratch the.above for argument sake. Baby writes a drawing and it is an art. Fine. It doesn't mean it's a good art, or best art or even art this baby wanted to draw. Not that O would recommend belittling a child for their poor drawing skills but if you can you absolutely should teach it to express itself better and more precisely.

Perhaps Larian did include porno like sex scenes for artistic reasons, and perhaps it is the best they can do. Perhaps pornhub is all the cinematic experience they have. I think it would be harmful not to point them to a wide range of options available to them to communicate romance which would be both more effective and make it's game more agreeable with wider audience. A child might learn to say *fuck* when it is upset but it will probably do well to expand its repertoire. It's communication will end up both more precise, more compelling and people will like it better. Al of those are positive. And yeah a good old *fuck* can be handy here and there, but it also can be very very out of place.

I am curious to know if anyone has a examples of intimate scenes in a video game done right. What is your standard there?

I think your confusing being purposeless with being unskilled. You don't actually need a great deal of technical skill to be an artist, nowhere is that more true than in video games where people don't even need to learn to code, or make graphical assets to be able to put them together to create something.

Anything to bring this discussion away from some troll stirring the pot around sex in video games is a win in my book.

For games that aren't about sex, it happens rarely enough that I struggle to think of any, and the ones I can think of are all Polish CDPR. Maybe more will come to me, but considering how often video games are the subject of moral panics in America, it probably isn't going to be a big list.

I think that saying you have to create good art to be an artist isn't really the right way to go. I agree that a baby can't be an artist because babies can't really consciously create anything. At most they're just moving their arms around and the results are just a byproduct of that. But I do think once they're able to consciously have ideas and try to express them through various mediums and they do so, they are creating art. The question of when someone goes from being 'a person who makes art' to 'an artist' is a blurry line, but I don't think the quality of the art is a deciding factor. I think that your example of 'someone who can drive' and 'a driver' is honestly worse because at least being an artist implies some kind of intentional commitment. Once you have a driver's license, you're a driver. Hell, that's probablt asking a bit extra. You're a driver once you're actually able to drive.

Yes, art can be taught and judged, but those aren't requirements. An artist can consistently put out poor quality work and that doesn't mean they're not an artist. It just means they're a bad artist. Because there are probably thousands of people out there who tried to make their living as an artist and couldn't because their work wasn't good enough. They're still artists, even if people don't like their art.

As for complaining about BG3 being a wide appeal commercial product, that doesn't make it any less art. Shakespear was a wide appeal commercial product. His shows plays were considered peasant entertainment. Plays in general were considered that in his time. They were probably seen as low brow as video games are now. His plays are full of sex and violence and puns meant to appeal to as many people as possible to make money. Is BG3 shakespear? No, it's not. But it's still art. The question is if it's good art or not.

Um, I don't know about anyone else but if I'm masturbating then my door is closed and locked so this sort of thing doesn't happen. Not sure why those of you that don't lock the door don't actually lock the door? As for doing it with the game? Well again I don't know about others but I do seriously play games a ton more than I masturbate. If you're masturbating more than gaming then you're either not gaming much or you have a serious problem. Not meaning that as an attack on anyone that masturbates a lot but it is an actual problem. Also as far as masturbating and gaming goes, the masturbating is guaranteed to be happening when you are doing it. The sex appearing on the screen when you're gaming isn't.


I find it funny that some of you say things like "If you don't lt skip through it" yet you don't "skip" my post. It's ok for you to complain about my complaint but I can't do the actual complaint itself? Lol. For the record, the only problem I have about all of you complaining about my complaint is that it seems hypocritical that you can complain but I can't. Kinda funny really. And for those of you saying "these sort of posts are everywhere" I don't understand why it's totally ok to post millions of positive posts but when someone posts a negative one it's so tragically wrong. Don't like my post? Leave it alone and don't read it. You know like some of you keep telling me "Skip it". Lol.
I'll restate my words again, I don't care if you put sex in a game, I just feel it doesn't belong in Baldur's Gate. Why? I guess because I played the first 2 without it and now in the sequal it just seems really wrong and highly unnescesary to me. Honestly I don't see why it's even needed in any game to begin with but if you want it fine. It's a game people. We have porn and we have games. Why do we need to combine them? Lol.

For reference, Mass Effect had better shot sex scenes and writing 10 years ago.

Baldur's Gate 3 has sex scene shots motivated only by showing off certain very specific positions during an act. Underlining the actual positions take the scenes much closer to porn, and comedy since they are so poorly animated.

Well, Mass Effect, as well as Dragon age always use short scenes, which are linked together in a sequence. Hard to say if they were better. This was a simpler approach, but it is not really immersive and pulls out of the story, while definitely being easier to animate. And writing of romances did not look like a good part of Mass Effect for me. It was just a reward for a good relationship with a companion at the end of the story. It was lacking development (which is also lacking in bg3, but we have only the first act). Honestly, I can not remember a game where the development of a romance just does not end after the official start of a relationship.

I'd say that the mass effect scenes fit the overall tone of the game. I certainly didn't feel pulled out of the story. I think the linked sequence approach focused more on the intimacy of of the characters, rather than the sex itself. I would say that it's better since it leaves more to the imagination. The point of a sex scene, like any scene in a story, is to convey information to move the story forward in some way. They're meant to convey the advancement of the individuals involved. The problem in a roleplaying game is that we the players control one of the characters, which means that in a sex scene, there will inevitably be a lot of players who don't mind sex scenes in principle but will look at what eventually ends up in Baldur's Gate 3 and say 'that's not my character.' I think the explicit sex scenes in the Witcher work because Geralt is fundamentally a settled character. He can develop in some different directions but he's basically the same person in everyone's game. Our Tavs and Shepards can be wildly different, down to being different species in the former's case. Our Tavs can be nobles, entertainers, wizards and barbarians. Yet unless Larian is willing to get quite granular in a way that might not even be to the benefit of the sex scene overall, then they potentially can all have sex in the same way. So for a large section of the audience, regardless of the quality of the animation, those sex scenes will effectively take our character out of our control and have us just watch our character not really being our character for a while.

Fair enough, and I concede, especially to @Grey Ghost.

Mass Effect1 was decent. As far as graphic sex scenes go I thought Witcher3 did well, with well established relationships which bled into the sex scenes. Those had narrative to them, and did well to established intimacy between two characters rather then nudity for the sake of the player (thought there is definitely that as well).

A good example where intimate scene got better through removal of the sex scene was Mafia1 => Mafia: Definitive Edition.

D:OS2 Red Prince/Princess

Edit. Ah, Saints Row4. For people with “you are fine with violence in BG3 but not with sex” this is closer to what sex scenes in BG3 should be if they wanted to match the silly combat. That’s what one calls: Tonally consistant.

Can we please stop talking about other games? They have no point in this discussion. This discussion is about Baldur's Gate. The sex in other games is irrelivant. Start a new topic and discuss them there please.

I'll take it.

D:OS2 's scene's were text only right? Text only was a good way of going.

The only Mass Effect scene I think was explicit was maybe Andromeda. It has been a while, I remember the scene in Andromeda being a bit of a tonal shift I wasn't prepared for, but that was probably because by that time I was already just going through the motions with that game.

Another link for people who don't think this topic has come up time and again Adult content in BG3 Andromeda jogged it from my memory

Well, there isn’t much to be discussed in terms of romance and sex when it comes to Baldur’s Gate. I can’t recall anything of that sort, but it’s been a while since I played it.

[actually that’s a lie. I am playing it right now for a bit on my iPAD]

And that is your answer ...
Lock the door so it dont happen. And you no longer need to wonder what are you supposed to say to her. :P

I'm an artist, an artist is under no requirement to do anything. They teach people artistic techniques, and theories, the artists accepts, rejects or creates new techniques or theories as they see fit.

You are allowed to critique art, you can not like art. But the artist isnt required to accept, believe, or value your opinion.


As far as the topic of the game, and what you view as uneccesarry or poorly executed, its a cut scene you can skip. If the mere existence of it within the game spoils the game for you, thats fair, but don't expect everyone else to share your perspective.

you might be shocked, but puppets rubbing against each other is art, Art also doesnt need to be sophisticated, or adult. Its fine not to like it, but art is not defined by your subjective feelings about it.