Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback WOW so Baldur's Gate has gone from fun GAMe to borderline cartoon porn?

This thread is really turning into a mess, but before it gets closed, I'd just like to say that I'm still very much in favour of a fade-to-black option for those that want it, mostly for streamers, but also for people who just don't want that.

But if you think that DnD is not suffering from the same kind of media sanitising effect that is causing movies and games to remove guns, blood and all sexual references so they can be marketed to a younger audience, then you are very mistaken. Hasbro is firmly on the child-friendly train, and in late 2021 most references to sexual content, including the presence of brothels, was quietly errata-ed out of all the current DnD sourcebooks. While any sourcebooks you bought before then will have this content, it won't be in the reprinted editions, nor on dndbeyond (which is quickly becoming Hasbro's primary focus for distribution). There really wasn't a lot of sexual or sexual-adjacent content in these books to begin with, certainly not enough to be objectionable, but it got removed anyway.

In a way, I'm happy that Larian decided to go full steam ahead with their sex scenes. I've already seen online groups criticise the game for it's adult content, but I'd be interested to know if they are copping flak from Hasbro reps.

Your every post is strawman arguments. Are you aware that BG2 was made more than 20 years ago and graphics had serious limitations then? And there is nothing wrong with visually depicting sex.

That person didn't ask for options, he said that sex doesn't have place in the BG franchise. And comparing that with racism is the most appropriate one. One claims that having a different skin colour, which is natural to humans, is bad. Another claims that a natural human activity like sex is bad.

Then this is the 1 billion dollar question, if you know it isnt real... what is the problem ?... what happened in BG1 wasent real, exactly as it wasent in BG2 and now in BG3 it is all a story a fantasy that depict everything from heaven and hell and inbetween... but as the the years gone by everything in these games get more grafical... every single thing... and the problem this entire thread has, that no matter how your reasoning is, it eludes to some not being able to treat certain things as fantasy, and start to adress it as something real...

So again, you say it is to grafical, oki... then i ask you is it a to grafical fantasy ?... no matter how we keep this logic chain, we end up at, its to grafical couse some think its real... and there is the problem... and sorry, if you cant destiguise between fantasy and whats real, and the borders start to get erased, i personaly think we might have problem... let fantasy be fantasy, grafical fantasy or not...

That isnt the games problem, as its written for a audience that is adult and *cough* should be able to understand, a penis in a video game isnt more real then murdering someone in same vedeogame, and its exactly the same level of not being real, regardless how grafically pixely it becomes... ultimatly there is no spoon Penis

Let me put it another way. If you do not care about whether or not you insult a person - you can look at what you are doing from a different perspective. What are you trying to achieve? That people you are talking with change their opinions? To promote your point of view? Then you achieve nothing. I actually agree with you about religion, but your attempts to persuade other people are futile at best. If you actually want to make other people listen - it is necessary to speak respectfully. It will be actually beneficial for you in the end.

Throughout this thread you seem to be repeating the same point about improved graphic capabilities in Baldur's Gate 3. I am interpreting your argument to be that because video game graphics are improving, it makes sense for romance, violence, etc. to be shown more explicitly. In this argument you are making the assumption that older games did not show sex due to graphics limitations instead of a fade to black being an intentional decision by the writers.

All cutscenes should serve a purpose. They should be communicating something about the player, the companions, the world, etc. However, the sex scenes in Baldur’s Gate communicate very little that was not already covered in previous scenes. This lack of purpose is compounded with the issue of them being poorly animated and choreographed, making the end product hilarious.

Oftentimes in violence or sex scenes you don’t need to be shown anything explicit in order to understand more about the characters/world/whatever. Take this scene:
I don’t know if this is still in the current game but I’m using it as an example anyways because it illustrates my point. All of the major hits to the tiefling are not shown on camera. After he goes down (with a little tiny splash of blood) the hits to him are shown off camera. The parts of his body that would be disfigured/broken (his head) are covered by the foliage. This is still a violent scene but the writers/animators were intentional in how they conveyed this moment. Players do not need to see someone’s disfigured face to understand the gravity of what just happened. Just like how players don’t need to see Minthara blowjob to understand that drow are sexy or whatever. I don’t actually know what the writers are trying to communicate in the Minthara sex scene besides that drow are sexy and Minthara should step on them.

Anyways what I’m trying to say is no matter how good the graphics, there is often no need for explicit sex scenes as they very rarely communicate anything meaningful about the characters or story. If sex scenes started including important character moments then maybe it’d be different.

Aurora, I think your point is taken by everyone. This is true that people in our society are much more accustomed to violence than to sex. It is weird, but it is true. You can not change this by repeating your points over and over. They are valid, but it does not change people's feeling. A lot of people actually complained not about the fact this game has explicit scenes, but about their quality. So, everything became more graphical, but not graphical enough. This game pushes boundaries, and I have seen a lot of people who are excited about it, even if Larian makes it clumsy. I am happy to see that other people like you also believe in Larian and are ready to give them a chance, but this does not mean the same argument about graphics and the fact that it is not real can persuade everyone. Not at this point in humanities time, at least

If you just keep silent when the opinions about restricting freedom of expression are being pushed then you'll run into the effect, which cause devs having an impression that "community wants us to make such restrictions and we're making games for them". This is how the whole "vocal minority with agenda works".

So your answer to that is to just scream louder?

The fact that it's not real doesn't matter at all. Some people don't enjoy depictions of sex. Maybeit makes them uncomfortable, maybe they think it just looks dumb, maybe they think it doesn't fit the tone of the rest of the game. But your fixation on 'it's not real so what's the problem?' is a weird hill to die on. Furthermore, the game and the things that appear on screen are meant to make us feel things. Maybe it's meant to make us feel entertained, happy, sad, engaged, and a plethora of other things. If we take your argument to its natural conclusion then we shouldn't be feeling anything by playing this game because none of it's real. If you accept that the game and its graphics can make us feel things, then you also have to accept that it can make people feel uncomfortable. Your point that things look more graphic because technology is growing higher-fidelity is a reasonable one, but that still doesn't account for the difference in acknowledging that sex exists and your character maybe has it and actual hard core sex scenes. There is in fact a qualitative difference there. You can argue about how much that difference matters, but it exists.

Also maybe it's just me, but I've never played a game and thought it was better for having hardcore sex in it. I've played Witcher 1 and 2 and the sex scenes there were well done, but honestly I wouldn't have cared if they were removed entirely and I'm always feeling emotionally distant from those who do care about it. Just in general, I don't enjoy explicit sex in media that I'm not coming to for explicit sex. I never got into game of thrones because the violence and hopelessness always put me off, but I do read a series called the Dresden Files, and sex scenes show up there infrequently. And I always just skim past them because they feel like intrusions keeping me from the stuff I actually care about. I do get the principle of it, and I frankly think that as a society we actually should be more okay with sexuality and less okay with violence than we are, but I can't get emotionally invested in any desire for explicit sex in stuff. I think being more comfortable with discussing and touching on it is positive, and being more comfortable with the naked body and being able to accept it as not inherently sexual is something I also think is important. But actual explicit sex? Eh. I don't want it if I'm not looking for it. It's like tomato in a burger for me. Obviously it should be available for people who like it, but when it just comes with the burger then I have to go to the trouble of pulling it out so I can enjoy the good part.

And just to bring up another thing that's been sort of in my head for a little while. I don't really expect the sex scenes to add even theoretical value the game. I can understand the mechanical aspects of what a sex scene can add to a narrative, in terms of character development, ect, but I don't really think Larian's storytelling is at a level where they actually could include sex with genuine maturity and narrative purpose. There are some devs I think could manage it, but I would not put Larian even close to that list.

Please, point me out what screaming exactly you're referring to?

The point still stands, a pixel is still a pixel no matter how grafical it is... What is DnD, what is roleplaying, its a escape into a fantasy... the world of BG1 if you read about it, its full of really uggly nasty things, you have rasism, slavery, whores, secual slavery, hell you even have magical collars that dominate you do somenes every whim... and all this vile and uggly stuffs, is there couse in many cases its there for the adventures, you and me, to fight...

And all BG1 games often set up moral dilemmmas, or as Cohh said in one of his play choises, i dont want to do any of these... so a story is limited in scope to Larian, ability to code it, and also how they can mediate this with its mediums... and yes the grafics has during the ages vastly aproved and all these moral things will evolve across the line, everything will get more grafical... EVERYTHNG....

But to go back to all these horrible things, their there to create choises... If you want to be a Hero/Heroine, there need to be horrible things to fight, and or temptaions to battle...and Larian have done this across the board, they dont shy away from sexual natured things... wich was implemented within the games as romance story line, that often intertwined with the big quest line...

And then many of you say, but they dident show anything, or very little, yea thats true, but everything back then was pixely and dident show anything... it all evolves across the board... wich brings us back to present, the tech is now grafical, you can actually see that a person is nude, vs back in BG1, that is soley couse grafics and tech has advanced, but its still just means to to tell a story, a fantasy, and give it to us... and as i started, alot of these games, is about experiencing a fantasy and deal with it, for good or foor evil... and in this case further a romance tory line, just like back in BG1...

could Larian remove these things, sure could, they could remove rasism as well from the BG verse, and alot of other horrible horrible things, or they could allow us to deal with these non real things, as these Fantasy games was made to be, where nerds is chads in shining armour... and boob armour !

You said that there is a vocal minority that can make devs feel like the community wants the restrictions. Minorities can be vocal, yes. So I asked you - what is your strategy? To scream louder than them?

Thats fair, but if you dont like Adult themed things, then perhaps avoid them, thats sort of the point... But BG generaly has had these things since the dawn of time... Rasism and slavery in all its forms is horrible, should Larian remove these things, despite it exists in the verse ?... couse exactly as some will want or feel that a pixel penis is to much for them to handle, want it "fade to black" it will require alot of work from Larian to filter all possible quests and follow up quests... then we come to next person that dont want Rasism... we have some other that dont want to see chained and enslaved people... and the list would go on... how far should Larian go, rewrite storyline upon story line to accomodate people that in the end has a problem with a pixel getting to lifelike and they have a problem dealing with it IRL...

or you know, we could just let a fantasy for adults be just that...

I'm sorry, but how entitled are you? People suffer in real life from racism every day and you diminish that by using at as a comparison because you are afraid, you don't get your sex scene? Please stop that.
Literally no one said to censor the game, not even the religious guy, people just asked for an option ( you know, what an option is? It means more, not less) for fade to black.
I'm still shocked, that you would use such a comparison, that is really uncalled for.
I'm out, I'm really disgusted.

As I said before - it is true. There were nasty things in previous games. There are such things here. But our society evolved in such a way that seeing pixels that represent a sexual act is disturbing, (For someone, of course) while seeing the brain pushed out of the skull, the torture of a person or slaves being exploited and killed - is not. If this is the most concerning question for you right now - I believe you will not be able to change people's minds. But there is a chance that Larian will. So let us just wait and see on statistics after a game release.

And once again - there are not a lot of people on this thread who criticized the fact of sexual scenes, but who did not like their quality and lack of choices. So, if you have something to say about it - it will be much more productive, on my opinion.

No one is screaming, are you having comprehension problems? If you keep using loaded words, we have nothing to talk about.

Now you mention racism, I actually have argued that thus far Larian's use of racism has been very surface level and at times just immature. The tiefling situation has the possibility to develop into something deeper, but we'll have to wait and see there. Then there are the racist comments bandied about. For me the Dragon Age series is the high water mark for an actually mature fantasy video game setting that approaches racism thoughtfully by acknowledging how horrible it is and giving our character opportunities to react to it. Nothing in Early Access has, in my opinion, approached the level of genuine maturity and grit that the city elf origin in Dragon Age origins had. If Larian is just going to 'have racism' because 'mature' and not because they have something to say about it or do with it, then they're probably better off not having it at all, in fact. Because right now despite being for adults, it doesn't have anything deeper to say about racism than 'racism bad'. What does it have to say about sex and sexual dynamics that lets it earn that mature rating?

You insulted different people, and it looked like a trie to be heard. It did not look like an attempt to persuade. You said there are vocal people whose opinions can be heard by developers, and it seems like you are trying to have more voice than them. What do you want to call it? Listen, I am trying to speak with you respectfully, but you do not make it easier.

Wow, a fallacious manipulative answer. Sorry, doesn't work on me. Please, be disgusted, you won't be missed.

The events of the chapter 1 doesn't provide a real opportunity to depict racism problems properly in-depth. But I'm all for proper representation in the Baldur's Gate city chapters. Regarding other games, I think, the Witcher's depiction of the problem is better and more believable than in the Dragon Age (but I only played Origins). However, this is off-topic regarding the thread theme.

True, and thanks for staying debating in a civil manner... think that needs to be said, you can opose each other and still be civil, even if we try to sloughter each others arguments ;P

Personally i think Larian keeps and adds these things, couse it is their style to let us wrestle with uncomfterble choises, and doing so within a medium where its no real, is what these fantasy setting is for... and my objection isnt that i dont understand, this can be hard for some, its couse its a constant problem that invades more and more games, that beside them being adult, and has these things, the producers is asked to accomodate peoples special needs, the problem is when you start to stack requests you get into a zone that, i and those like me risk loosing the orginal version, or the production time as a whole gets prolonged...

And ultimaly we all have our pet pevess, the risk is we end up with something bland, that no ones is happy about...so as i say, let Larian make their adult game, in all its uncomfterble way, couse even if i guess that amount of sexual scenes not be that many, and most of them you could probably avoid, sure there is allways the risk of that suprice inkubuss encounter, and aprantly that dangling not real pixel penis...

I think people need to be more open minded, and see this for what it is, and try avoid dragging their real life values into the game, it never end well, this thread included... grafical pixels no matter what it is...

its a alpha, i pesonally think we will see alot of things improve, the quality of pixel penises or pixel chopping of heads is the least of my worry ;P. my worry is that we still have uncomferble choises we get the game, and its not just a carebear sanctuary where no uncomvterble is allowed... and hopefully this year ;P