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Originally Posted by Aaezil
Originally Posted by Wormerine
I interesting claim. As someone who played most major D&D and non-D&D cRPGs, and Baldur’s Gate series specifically I would be willing to call bullshit on that. But maybe you are right, maybe computer adaptations have been sanitised up to this point. Let’s see… D&D starter set… 12+ rating, just like your usual D&D cRPG. How… expected.

I’m talking about the forgotten realms dnd tabletop game setting that was creates by Ed Greenwood not computer games and not whatever 5edition wizards of the coast thing you linked. Nice job attacking a strawman though.
Didn't mean to be the strawman, just felt a need to be snarky after getting accusing of not knowing games that I have been playing for almost 20 years.

I am not quite understanding the differentce - isn't Forgotten Relms D&D (again, clearly not a tabletop player here)? But even so, we ARE talking about computer games and 5th edition as we have a sequel to cRPG Baldur's Gate3 as was created by Bioware allegedly based on D&D 5e. If Larian went for a hard reboot, that's another matter, but BG3 has "3" in the title, and brings back characters (and allegedly more) from the old games. I am not refuting the existance of 18+ rated Forgotten Relms content (I will believe you that it exists, I have no interest in seaking it out), but it is not just a Forgotten Relms game, it is a Baldur's Gate game and a sequel at that.

And even if it wasn't a sequel we can still have a conversation if the content found in the game is beneficial to the overall story, just like we can talk about design decisions.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Aaezil
Originally Posted by Wormerine
I interesting claim. As someone who played most major D&D and non-D&D cRPGs, and Baldur’s Gate series specifically I would be willing to call bullshit on that. But maybe you are right, maybe computer adaptations have been sanitised up to this point. Let’s see… D&D starter set… 12+ rating, just like your usual D&D cRPG. How… expected.

I’m talking about the forgotten realms dnd tabletop game setting that was creates by Ed Greenwood not computer games and not whatever 5edition wizards of the coast thing you linked. Nice job attacking a strawman though.
Didn't mean to be the strawman, just felt a need to be snarky after getting accusing of not knowing games that I have been playing for almost 20 years.

I am not quite understanding the differentce - isn't Forgotten Relms D&D (again, clearly not a tabletop player here)? But even so, we ARE talking about computer games and 5th edition as we have a sequel to cRPG Baldur's Gate3 as was created by Bioware allegedly based on D&D 5e. If Larian went for a hard reboot, that's another matter, but BG3 has "3" in the title, and brings back characters (and allegedly more) from the old games. I am not refuting the existance of 18+ rated Forgotten Relms content (I will believe you that it exists, I have no interest in seaking it out), but it is not just a Forgotten Relms game, it is a Baldur's Gate game and a sequel at that.

And even if it wasn't a sequel we can still have a conversation if the content found in the game is beneficial to the overall story, just like we can talk about design decisions.
Forgotten Realms isn't the whole of D&D, as Greyhawk is the original setting, and of course beyond that we also have Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Eberron, etc(Though you wouldn't know it by modern WotC). The original Baldur's Gate games were based on AD&D 2E.

It also looks like this
[Linked Image from i.kym-cdn.com]

Now I don't need to be a rocket surgeon to surmise that you probably couldn't make a half-way decent sex scene with these visuals, though I'm sure they could be somewhat amusing watching tiny naked sprites with vague details alternating between different positions as you watch from your isometric God angle, being able to count the frames of animations between thrusts.

That aside, Baldur's Gate has had romance options since the second installment, and more has been added with the Enhanced Editions. Whether or not romance is beneficial to any story is subjective to the reader, hence why it's *optional*.

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Thanks for the explanation.

Originally Posted by Swagnar
Now I don't need to be a rocket surgeon to surmise that you probably couldn't make a half-way decent sex scene with these visuals,
(…)
That aside, Baldur's Gate has had romance options since the second installment, and more has been added with the Enhanced Editions. Whether or not romance is beneficial to any story is subjective to the reader, hence why it's *optional*.
Well, BG3 can’t make half-decent sex scenes, so nothing really has changed. If Bioware wanted to get edgy they would have, technology be damned. I brought up Fallout earlier that has more mature content then BGs in terms of violence, language and sex. BGs didn’t, because this wasn’t something that story ever called for (speaking in here regarding world as portrayed in BG1&2, not wider forgotten realms media). 18 rated games aren’t a new concept - they were thing back than as well.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Well, BG3 can’t make half-decent sex scenes, so nothing really has changed. If Bioware wanted to get edgy they would have, technology be damned. I brought up Fallout earlier that has more mature content then BGs in terms of violence, language and sex. BGs didn’t, because this wasn’t something that story ever called for (speaking in here regarding world as portrayed in BG1&2, not wider forgotten realms media). 18 rated games aren’t a new concept - they were thing back than as well.

Hard disagree. CG porn has gotten to a point where artists who are talented enough can rig very realistic sex animations and program in physiques that make the bodies move fairly naturally, and BG3 is going for a softcore/GoT level of depictions. We're not talking about Virt-A-Mate with full camera controls, looping animations and selectable positions.

Another reason the original Baldur's Gate didn't have sex or nudity, you must understand, was the ability to sell the game, period. I don't know how old you are, but there was a point in time where if you wanted to make sales at all, you had to be able to get your game on a shelf in physical locations, and if you were a developer who was relying on publishers to fund your game development, they expected a return on investment. A game with sex would literally not be sold in stores. Your game would be pulled from shelves, and your company would go bankrupt. The marketplace is no longer like that. You don't have to worry about being able to sell your game in Target to make sales, and the culture taboos around depictions of sex in media are thankfully being eroded. These advances in social progress have been extremely beneficial for many disaffected minority groups, and the fact that we get to romance companions regardless of sex or race is proof of that, when previously games usually were restricted to heteronormative pairings and even restricted romance options from races like dwarves and others.

The inclusion of sex in BG3 is objectively a positive decision.

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@Swagner I still see BG3 moving away from Rated T fantasy adventure as fundamentally changing identity of the IP, but I see your reasoning now. Not that I will not count it against BG3 - pairing childish writing and doll-like visuals, with violence, cursing and sex makes for quite a tonal dissonance. If indeed, BG1&2 were saved from careless inclusion of f*** bombs, boobs, and poo than blessed be censorship saving game makers from their own lack of a better judgement.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
@Swagner I still see BG3 moving away from Rated T fantasy adventure as fundamentally changing identity of the IP, but I see your reasoning now. Not that I will not count it against BG3 - pairing childish writing and doll-like visuals, with violence, cursing and sex makes for quite a tonal dissonance. If indeed, BG1&2 were saved from careless inclusion of f*** bombs, boobs, and poo than blessed be censorship saving game makers from their own lack of a better judgement.
If you don't like a role-playing game's writing, why are you even playing it? You're clearly in the wrong genre.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Aaezil
Originally Posted by Wormerine
I interesting claim. As someone who played most major D&D and non-D&D cRPGs, and Baldur’s Gate series specifically I would be willing to call bullshit on that. But maybe you are right, maybe computer adaptations have been sanitised up to this point. Let’s see… D&D starter set… 12+ rating, just like your usual D&D cRPG. How… expected.

I’m talking about the forgotten realms dnd tabletop game setting that was creates by Ed Greenwood not computer games and not whatever 5edition wizards of the coast thing you linked. Nice job attacking a strawman though.
Didn't mean to be the strawman, just felt a need to be snarky after getting accusing of not knowing games that I have been playing for almost 20 years.

I am not quite understanding the differentce - isn't Forgotten Relms D&D (again, clearly not a tabletop player here)? But even so, we ARE talking about computer games and 5th edition as we have a sequel to cRPG Baldur's Gate3 as was created by Bioware allegedly based on D&D 5e. If Larian went for a hard reboot, that's another matter, but BG3 has "3" in the title, and brings back characters (and allegedly more) from the old games. I am not refuting the existance of 18+ rated Forgotten Relms content (I will believe you that it exists, I have no interest in seaking it out), but it is not just a Forgotten Relms game, it is a Baldur's Gate game and a sequel at that.

And even if it wasn't a sequel we can still have a conversation if the content found in the game is beneficial to the overall story, just like we can talk about design decisions.

You do bring up a good point about how the first two games are able to be played by just about anybody, and the fact that this is the third installment in the series means that it should follow suit.

Part of the reason I brought up Star Wars is because it is a series of stories. Imagine if Disney took over Star Wars and suddenly added pornography to it. The first six movies can be watched by anyone of any age, but suddenly episodes 7 8 and 9 have a bunch of nudity and sex in it.

That is essentially the same thing as what we're talking about with builders Gate 3. You have two games where anyone from any age really could play it. Especially nowadays when kids are playing things like call of duty, playing the first two builders gate games is something that just about anyone would find tame.

So it is reasonable that there are people who are upset by the fact that Baldur's Gate 3 is now including elements that immediately slam the door in the faces of some of its audience. It's just like you said, it would be one thing if they were creating a brand new and fresh game that was not a sequel. But this is not the case.

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Swag, please keep a lid on comments that you make with the sole purpose of attacking or jabbing at another poster - If you find yourself being antagonistic in your writing, with no clear purpose or point behind it, then it's better not to respond, or to start over and find something worthwhile to say.

I also think the writing in BG3 is childish and very amateur so far, and I agree with Wormerine that it is one of the contributing factors, along with their other choices, adding up to a lot of tonal dissonance and jarring conflicts of style and atmosphere. Begin critical of one particular entry into a genre is usually a sign that someone enjoys that genre generally speaking.

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Originally Posted by Swagnar
If you don't like a role-playing game's writing, why are you even playing it? You're clearly in the wrong genre.
I think it should be clear by now why I have an interest in a game carrying a Baldur's Gate IP. And if game had no issues with the game, I wouldn't be hanging around the forums, would I.

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The things is as i pointed to, even if you remove the more direct intended romance related sex stuff... BG3 will end up mature rated, and that is the simple fact that as the tech has advanced, everything gets more grafical... that nude pixely or scantely dressed, that pixely combat back in BG... and if you just bascially aply same advanced grafics on same models back then, and aply it in BG3... you end up with a extremly more grafical game forsome, and thats not couse Larian want to or put more effort into this... its simply couse everything gets more grafical as the tech has advanced...

And considering the BG verse and all the evil that exist in it... a grafical pixel penis, should be the least of peoples worry... you have evil rituals that sacrifice and damn people to servitude in hell, rasism, slavery, and the list goes on, the mere fact we have things in the verse by its very definition is evil, you ought to think that moral people have more to object to, then a pixel penis thats not real... but hey here we are 19 pages in... still debating... so even if the direct romance(sex) stuff be removed, or blurred you still end up with the plain fact as grafics advance EVERYTHING gets more grafical

The advances of grafics and making things more life like, also makes it harder for people to see things as not real, and subsequently they start to drag real life morals into games, on the basis they cant deal with it... so as i said earlier, the problem isnt the grafics in all its form... its you me and others not being able to treat them as pixels...

PS so many time reading this thread i get this mental image of a pleasure demon/devil or nymph dressed in a burkha, i was going to write something witty and cheeky but, yea lol... im just laughing at it at thispoint !

Cant agree more to what Eye said, be nice to people, but do beat up their arguments...

Last edited by Aurora42; 04/01/23 12:01 AM.
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Seriously, do you get paid per use of the word 'grafical'?

Not that really, truly is my last contribution to this discussion.

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i guess i could use difrent fonts and colours, that make it even more grafical ;P

Last edited by Aurora42; 04/01/23 12:20 AM.
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Originally Posted by Aurora42
The things is as i pointed to, even if you remove the more direct intended romance related sex stuff... BG3 will end up mature rated, and that is the simple fact that as the tech has advanced, everything gets more grafical... that nude pixely or scantely dressed, that pixely combat back in BG... and if you just bascially aply same advanced grafics on same models back then, and aply it in BG3... you end up with a extremly more grafical game forsome, and thats not couse Larian want to or put more effort into this... its simply couse everything gets more grafical as the tech has advanced...

And considering the BG verse and all the evil that exist in it... a grafical pixel penis, should be the least of peoples worry... you have evil rituals that sacrifice and damn people to servitude in hell, rasism, slavery, and the list goes on, the mere fact we have things in the verse by its very definition is evil, you ought to think that moral people have more to object to, then a pixel penis thats not real... but hey here we are 19 pages in... still debating... so even if the direct romance(sex) stuff be removed, or blurred you still end up with the plain fact as grafics advance EVERYTHING gets more grafical

The advances of grafics and making things more life like, also makes it harder for people to see things as not real, and subsequently they start to drag real life morals into games, on the basis they cant deal with it... so as i said earlier, the problem isnt the grafics in all its form... its you me and others not being able to treat them as pixels...

PS so many time reading this thread i get this mental image of a pleasure demon/devil or nymph dressed in a burkha, i was going to write something witty and cheeky but, yea lol... im just laughing at it at thispoint !

Cant agree more to what Eye said, be nice to people, but do beat up their arguments...

I don't accept the whole "graphics are more realistic, therefore it must be more bloody and gorey and sexual by nature just because the graphics are better" argument. That's just not true. Take Final Fantasy 14 Online. In many ways the graphics are better than BG3 - not all, but in many ways. Yet it is in no way super bloody, gorey, sexual.

There are ways around being outright pornographic and still realistic and true to the lore. You can have a succubus, for example, in a dress that is rather suggestive, have her whispering things into a character's ear that you as a player know is naughty, have her lure said person into a bedroom, shut the door, and lights out. All is true to character and form with zero nakedness, lewdness, and graphic sex.

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Originally Posted by Aurora42
BG3 will end up mature rated, and that is the simple fact that as the tech has advanced, everything gets more grafical...
Pick your poison:

1)
So what you are saying is that characters in BG3 curse, because of high fidelity audio?

2)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

3)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com] [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

4)
Not specifically to Aurora42 but:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com] [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Larian has made some weird creative choices. Nuff said. Goodnight.

Last edited by Wormerine; 04/01/23 12:40 AM.
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There's a difference between graphical quality and how explicit a piece of media is. Just because technological advancements have led to improved graphics in video games (or any medium), it doesn't necessarily follow that video games in general, let alone any specific video game series, will be made more explicit.

Last edited by mrfuji3; 04/01/23 12:47 AM. Reason: Ah, I see people above beat me to saying this.
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your missing the point, regardless if its gorey or nude... that pixel representaion in BG, or that more or less nude whore in BG, when we looked at the combat or what ever it was back then, things got "blured" not by the fact Larian wanted that, just couse the pixels couldent show more, if you now aply the advances in grafics, to combat, or that nude whore and show it in BG3... the diffrence to what we can see or experience is alot more , and it has nothing just with blood and violence, it just includes everything...

@Vormerine
And those examples is grainey, and simple compared to what we have to day... and yea, there was some grafics back then, that looked better, but we are not talking about the edge cases, thats a strawman... we are talking about the standard... example go inside BG the game and look at all the sprites and grafics, IN ENGINE, they handle everything on same basis... Larian dident try to single out certain things, they had a form and used that in BG, nothing was singled out and those edged cases couldent be inside the actual engine as we played, couse lol, our computors couldent handle it... what can be handled as standard across the norm, in engine now is a huge diffrence, and they apply it across the board... and again nothing is singled out, its same across EVERYTHING in engine

My point still stands, Larian has never tried to hold things back, or dress it up, no matter how uncomfterble it is, they tried to add it, and aply it as a experience across the board... nothing is singled out, to be more or less what it should, and thats how it should be

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wich again proves my point, that nude whore in BG1 in engine, that sprite dident show anything... but if you aply same standard grafics to that nude whore and show it in BG3, it will show a whole lot more... and that has nothing to do with Larian wanting to be more focused to do so, their aplying the grafics at their disposal across the board for averything...

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I've lost the plot a little, why are graphics being debated? Are we saying if the sex scenes had more or less graphical fidelity it would affect their rating? We're also dealing with a drastic change in the social mores around video games, the biggest whale in gaming, Grand Theft Auto, spurred a moral panic in 2005 when files for a sex minigame were found in its code, cut to 2013 and one of our main characters is introduced mid-coitus, shortly before murdering his partner's boyfriend (a main character from a previous game no less). That was 'edgy', GTA often plays with the line between exploitation and camp, neither of which I'd accuse BG3 of being yet.

People who think there can't be sex in older games just haven't looked too closely at the modding community. In one of the other myriad threads on this topic, I learned that one of the most popular mods for Neverwinter Nights is A Dance with Rogues, which was created by someone who felt frustrated by the relatively sexless worlds her fantasy games existed in. Now we're getting a game that actually deigns to transgress this topic, and people want to nag it for trying. Ho Hum.

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Originally Posted by Aurora42
wich again proves my point, that nude whore in BG1 in engine, that sprite dident show anything... but if you aply same standard grafics to that nude whore and show it in BG3, it will show a whole lot more... and that has nothing to do with Larian wanting to be more focused to do so, their aplying the grafics at their disposal across the board for averything...

Prostitute in Baldur's Gate. Her name is Quenash.

[Linked Image from blogger.googleusercontent.com]

I somehow don't see her as having to be that much more naked and such if they were to update her model. Based on what I see, she's actually probably more clothed than Aelith in the Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance for PS2.

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Now blowup one of the Balors

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