Can WotC actually claim anything off of Owlcat's Pathfinder games? It's one thing to claim royalties from a game that uses a derivative of your ruleset (something that it's not yet certain they can actually do) but it's another to interfere with an agreement made to a third party to claim revenue for a product that's already mostly complete. I mean, would WotC be able to claim a chunk from the profits the two Pathfinder games have already made? It's bound to be a legal quagmire.
No they cannot. Paizo used OGL 1.0 to create Pathfinder, and any OGL 1.1 version would not affect what's happened in the past, which would include Owlcat's past/current games. The issue is FUTURE Pathfinder games.
Here's the latest from Paizo. From this I would surmise that WotC's OGL 1.1 shenanigans have no impact on Pathfinder because OGL 1.1 cannot be retroactively imposed on something that was made using OGL 1.0, as WotC appears to want to try and do. If so, then yippeeee!!
A couple of last thoughts. First, we won’t be able to release the new OGL today, because we need to make sure we get it right, but it is coming. Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.
That was why our early drafts of the new OGL included the provisions they did. That draft language was provided to content creators and publishers so their feedback could be considered before anything was finalized. In addition to language allowing us to address discriminatory and hateful conduct and clarifying what types of products the OGL covers, our drafts included royalty language designed to apply to large corporations attempting to use OGL content. It was never our intent to impact the vast majority of the community.
The fact that they'll expect people to believe this is what scares me the most. How did they think, for a minute, that limiting someone's publishing range, and then publishing their work w/out paying them for it would not affect them?
A couple of last thoughts. First, we won’t be able to release the new OGL today, because we need to make sure we get it right, but it is coming. Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.
I'm guessing WotC's real goal is that they're hoping to scare a lot of third parties away from tabletop RPGs so they can funnel everyone towards some kind of subscription service thing like DnD Beyond in order to play. I don't think they're going to actually attempt to go after someone like Paizo in court, because it can and will easily backfire on them and earn them even more bad press. A lot of this only makes sense if they believe that they have a monopoly on tabletop RPGs. They're going to quickly find out that said monopoly can be lost in a flash.
Another take: Its unlikely that you can even copyright rules based on previous rulings, so people could actually reproduce D&D rules without the OGL anyway. Thus an updated OGL will not have any effect.
Trailer for the next Solasta DLC Palace of Ice, which also includes raising the level cap to 16 and adding the Gnome and Tiefling races
Previous cap was 12, so now we'll get: - 7th AND 8th level spells - 14th and 15th level Class/Subclass abilities (some classes also have one at lvl 13) - 16th level ASI plus Gnomes and Tieflings.
In addition to the official high-level DLC campaign, custom campaigns will ALSO begin to be made including these levels. I'm excited!
I was also hoping that TA might, before releasing a new campaign, fix some of the countless bugs/weird rulings/UI difficulties in Solasta that can make playing decently frustrating. Ah well...
Pretty stoked for the Solasta DLC. Let’s see what they’ve learned since Lost Valley.
I’ve lost track of how much DLC WotR has at this point. I honestly haven’t touched the game since about 3 months after initial release. I probably won’t play it again until after I know they’re finally done with it. Especially since they might keep making skill adjustments in the meantime.
Yes I am still salty over what happened to Elemental Barrage.
In other video game news, it appears Avellone's accusers have have agreed to settle with a monetary amount of seven figures to him. The statement they released about this involves quite a bit of gymnastics about how they were misinterpreted and were doing this to help women or something.
And that, my friends, is why the internet should not be taking sides in such disputes. But since the internet did and the damage is done... As a woman myself, I say those assholes should be ruined. I'm not sure what routes Avellone has to find work in this industry again.
(The last thread talking about this was actually the DOS2 sale thread from about eight months ago. Bumping THAT thread to talk about this would have caused predictable confusion.)
In other video game news, it appears Avellone's accusers have have agreed to settle with a monetary amount of seven figures to him. The statement they released about this involves quite a bit of gymnastics about how they were misinterpreted and were doing this to help women or something.
And that, my friends, is why the internet should not be taking sides in such disputes. But since the internet did and the damage is done... As a woman myself, I say those assholes should be ruined. I'm not sure what routes Avellone has to find work in this industry again.
(The last thread talking about this was actually the DOS2 sale thread from about eight months ago. Bumping THAT thread to talk about this would have caused predictable confusion.)
FUCK The burden of proof for a successful libel case is pretty high, so there must have been definitive proof of the falsity of the accusations for them to settle out of court like this. Full retraction and payout (Over a million!)...
But the damage is done and it is permanent.
Last edited by Zerubbabel; 25/03/2309:19 PM.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
It was a relief to hear that this case has been settled, and hopefully positively, but given that in the very statement linked, Avellone says “I would ask everyone to respect the privacy of Ms. Barrows and Ms. Bristol and use this opportunity as a means to listen to all voices in improving our culture and our communities†my preference would be to do just that and not get into the potentially vexed issue either of what happened in this particular case or the wider issues of sexual discrimination or harassment, or false accusations thereof, in the world of games development. This is a topic I have strong private opinions about, but as a forum member I don’t want to get into it further here, so I am hoping others will be of like mind. I do agree with Saito Hikari that public forums on the internet are not the best place to litigate this stuff.
To be clear, I’m not speaking as a moderator trying to quash valid debate on this topic. Though I am nervous about the potential of it trampling over issues that are traumatic in people’s real lives, it is at least related to gaming so relevant here if we squint a bit and it’s no bad thing to at least make sure the statement concluding the case is well publicised. Personally, though, I am now happy to read the statements and consider the matter closed.
Last edited by The Red Queen; 25/03/2309:50 PM. Reason: Clarification of my position as forum member vs moderator
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
It was a relief to hear that this case has been settled, and hopefully positively, but given that in the very statement linked, Avellone says “I would ask everyone to respect the privacy of Ms. Barrows and Ms. Bristol and use this opportunity as a means to listen to all voices in improving our culture and our communities†my preference would be to do just that and not get into the potentially vexed issue either of what happened in this particular case or the wider issues of sexual discrimination or harassment, or false accusations thereof, in the world of games development. This is a topic I have strong private opinions about, but as a forum member I don’t want to get into it further here, so I am hoping others will be of like mind. I do agree with Saito Hikari that public forums on the internet are not the best place to litigate this stuff.
To be clear, I’m not speaking as a moderator trying to quash valid debate on this topic. Though I am nervous about the potential of it trampling over issues that are traumatic in people’s real lives, it is at least related to gaming so relevant here if we squint a bit and it’s no bad thing to at least make sure the statement concluding the case is well publicised. Personally, though, I am now happy to read the statements and consider the matter closed.
Well, yeah. This case can be what it is, and one can simultaneously observe that sexual abuse is an all-too-common, likely systemic problem in the world, including game development, that needs immediate observation and amplification of its status as a major issue. The result of this case does not change the fact that there are sociocultural problems which need addressing as they pertain to sexual abuse within the communities of a shared hobby/industry/interest.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
As a what? When did this happen? Two years and counting on this forum and this the first time I’ve seen you mentioning it.
Uh. Back on topic. I don’t think we’ll ever see Avellone in charge (or in any leading role anyway) for any future production of a considerable size. The damage is done.
Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
As a what? When did this happen? Two years and counting on this forum and this the first time I’ve seen you mentioning it.
Uh. Back on topic. I don’t think we’ll ever see Avellone in charge (or in any leading role anyway) for any future production of a considerable size. The damage is done.
Not to be pedantic, but the accusations were made in... what... 2020? Since 2020, Avellone's been involved in: -Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous -Alaloth: Champion of the Four Kingdoms (Definitely a lower profile game?) -System Shock Remake to be released this year.
Sure, the games aren't as high-profile as his work on Jedi: Fallen Order or Fallout, but he's been at work on some things.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
In other video game news, it appears Avellone's accusers have have agreed to settle with a monetary amount of seven figures to him. The statement they released about this involves quite a bit of gymnastics about how they were misinterpreted and were doing this to help women or something.
And that, my friends, is why the internet should not be taking sides in such disputes. But since the internet did and the damage is done... As a woman myself, I say those assholes should be ruined. I'm not sure what routes Avellone has to find work in this industry again.
(The last thread talking about this was actually the DOS2 sale thread from about eight months ago. Bumping THAT thread to talk about this would have caused predictable confusion.)
Yes, saw this on the Obsidian forum. Happy for Avellone. I've never been a big fan of his work, but I have long felt that things like rape, assault, and even harrassment are such serious crimes where accusations damage you for life that a person who makes a false accusation of such a thing ought to be treated the same way as a person guilty of such crimes. So it's too bad these false accusers are not going to prison where they belong.
I don’t think we’ll ever see Avellone in charge (or in any leading role anyway) for any future production of a considerable size. The damage is done.
Not to be pedantic, but the accusations were made in... what... 2020? Since 2020, Avellone's been involved in: -Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous -Alaloth: Champion of the Four Kingdoms (Definitely a lower profile game?) -System Shock Remake to be released this year.
Sure, the games aren't as high-profile as his work on Jedi: Fallen Order or Fallout, but he's been at work on some things.
Well, not to be pedantic, but these are all contribution he started BEFORE being accused and his contribution on each one of them is marginal at best. The issue here isn't if they are big budget, high profile games or not.
Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Happy for Avellone, and hope he will continue writing and creating.
Interesting that the original false allegations swamped gaming news in 2020, compared to barely a mention of this outcome in his favor. I have been pursuing gaming news sites and for many of the big ones, there is nary a peep about it.
