"If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield." I have been wanting a "shield bash" ability ever since I started playing. This however is not it unfortunately. What I have to ask though is what is the differance between this "ability" and the general shove ability? To me it just sounds like you're "using your shield" instead of your hands??? If that's the case it seems just pointless to me. I'm guessing that I am missunderstanding things here though and would like someone to please clarify what I'm not understanding.
I still eagerly await a "shield bash" ability/feat. I'm not really sure why but I've always liked the idea of smacking you upside your head, or just in your body in general, with my shield. Basically like a 2nd attack but with a shield as the weapon. I know everyone has seen this happen in movies so you have got to know what I'm talking about. Lol.
A shove to prone, even if it was restricted to the Shield Master feat would be great. As modders could use the animations and what not to give us a rules as written shove to port into the game. Though, I admit, I'd prefer the animation for it be a bit more grounded than the flying shield bash shown in the accompanying video. Just a personal preference, mind you.
"If you take the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to try to shove a creature within 5 feet of you with your shield." I have been wanting a "shield bash" ability ever since I started playing. This however is not it unfortunately. What I have to ask though is what is the differance between this "ability" and the general shove ability? To me it just sounds like you're "using your shield" instead of your hands??? If that's the case it seems just pointless to me. I'm guessing that I am missunderstanding things here though and would like someone to please clarify what I'm not understanding.
I still eagerly await a "shield bash" ability/feat. I'm not really sure why but I've always liked the idea of smacking you upside your head, or just in your body in general, with my shield. Basically like a 2nd attack but with a shield as the weapon. I know everyone has seen this happen in movies so you have got to know what I'm talking about. Lol.
It is my free interpretatio of a "shield bash" because it is the closest to the 5E ruling I know. A real offensive shild bash skill is of course always better to have.
But mainly this is about the shove mechanic in general which is Larian homebrew and not 5E compliant. Larians BA shove mechanic devalues the Shield Master feat besides some other mechanics...
Originally Posted by Ignatius
A shove to prone, even if it was restricted to the Shield Master feat would be great. As modders could use the animations and what not to give us a rules as written shove to port into the game. Though, I admit, I'd prefer the animation for it be a bit more grounded than the flying shield bash shown in the accompanying video. Just a personal preference, mind you.
Don't take this video example for 100%. I didn't find a better melee combat example then and I haven't found one now, but the original skill in the game shown is actually melee. The dude just show some kind of game mechanic exploit for a range attack version of that skill for the PVP.
But mainly this is about the shove mechanic in general which is Larian homebrew and not 5E compliant. Larians BA shove mechanic devalues the Shield Master feat besides some other mechanics...
Great another non5edition ruling. I love when companies "follow the rules" of the game.Lol
Shield Master would be a really cool feat if it would exclusively give you that BA Shove. Flavorful and useful.
Larian should also pay close attention to "5 feet". Not 20ft. or 50ft., 5.
I honestly can't believe Shove is still a BA and the distances are what they are. It's objectively terrible. I guess they prefer the slapstick and memes over credible tactical combat.
Shield Master would be a really cool feat if it would exclusively give you that BA Shove. Flavorful and useful.
Larian should also pay close attention to "5 feet". Not 20ft. or 50ft., 5.
I honestly can't believe Shove is still a BA and the distances are what they are. It's objectively terrible. I guess they prefer the slapstick and memes over credible tactical combat.
Right. I believe https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Arrow+of+Roaring+Thunder has that 5ft. knockback range and is also available to all classes with an appropriate ranged weapon, so there is absolutely no need for an universal BA Shove skill and certainly not with more than 5ft. as you say.
Be careful Larian. D&D games like this one and DDO, the playerbase wants you to understand that this is a game that you BUILD AROUND AN ALREADY ESTABLISHED SET OF RULES. Any deviation will have to be slight enough that you can at least close your eyes and imagine what they can do on the tabletop.
Of course some rules must change in the conversion into a video game... or sometimes must even be excluded, but if you are going to DO IT BY NAME, do it with respect to the rule. Its got to feel right. If its a total exaggeration, its not going to go well.
I noticed that Shove is set as a bonus action rather than an action. This pretty much removes half the reason to take Shield Master as a feat. In the same vain I notice that Shield bash has been removed from the Shield Master feat. Seems odd given you have the mechanic already in place, As far as game play with Shove thus far, it seems a bit OP as a bonus action. I am pushing people off cliffs and buildings with abandon, with all players. In a lot of situations its my default bonus action over others especially if I marry it with those things that grant saving throw bonuses.
Why not push Shove to an action per the rules, grant it as a bonus action for those that have the Shield Master feat? It grants more utility to Shield Master, makes it less inviting to other character classes that would normally be less inclined to use up their action for the Shove feature and thus balance is achieved.
Just a shove for thought.
Absolutely necessary in my opinion. Aside from nerfing the one handed play style, it's a nerf to supporting characters. They end up burning a spell slot just for enemies to "shove" out of the spell's effect.
Supporting and defensive characters are already at a disadvantage. They need to be given some meaningful play style features!
If Larian wants to be inventive, I would rather they rename the bonus action shove "shield bash". Add some extra chance to prone, damage, etc. I'd be okay with classes such as rogue having a weaker shove (call it "underhanded tactics". Make it better with rising level, while being something reasonable like a kick to the back). Aside from these two, it shouldn't be given out for free.
Larian wants to be inventive, I would rather they rename the bonus action shove "shield bash". Add some extra chance to prone, damage, etc. I'd be okay with classes such as rogue having a weaker shove (call it "underhanded tactics". Make it better with rising level, while being something reasonable like a kick to the back). Aside from these two, it shouldn't be given out for free.
Yeah I would love to see a "kick" shove for Rogues / Monks.
Shove is really fun as it is. Literally every single person I've watched play BG3 on Twitch or YouTube (and it's been a lot) has been utterly delighted by Shove as it is. Even if it unbalances things (literally, am I right?) some, it's so entertaining I don't think they should change it.
Changing the action economy has very little to do with the "fun" aspect of it. The shove would still be the same as an attack action, you just wouldn't be able to attack in addition to pushing someone into lava, or doing an "I win" push off a cliff.
While cutting the ridiculous distances could have a more of an impact of someone's casual fun, shorter distances need to be enforced on harder difficulties where players are looking for a more serious challenge than just abusing the same overpowered cartoony mechanics.
It's weird, I haven't used shove more than a handful of times (hah!) I've just never enjoyed those kinds of mechanics. I don't mind them being in-game, but I do not want the combat balanced around using things like shove. That would frustrate me, because it forces me to have a harder time because I don't want to use silly mechanics.
I agree with both of you. However, the comment by Firesnakearies was 2.5 years ago. This thread has suffered necromancy on a couple of occasions it appears.
Granted, I only noticed this because it featured a comment by me that I don't remember writing.
Shove is really fun as it is. Literally every single person I've watched play BG3 on Twitch or YouTube (and it's been a lot) has been utterly delighted by Shove as it is. Even if it unbalances things (literally, am I right?) some, it's so entertaining I don't think they should change it.
Sadly precisely why it will probably not change. Its a silly ability designed with social media in mind. Its so much Joly fun. Great PR for Larian! Does it make sense in D&D or Baldur's gate? Absolulity NOT! But who cares, its joly fun I guess...
At the very least Larian could fix the idiotically weird long arcing <flight?> animations. But I guess this is also done on purpose, to look silly by design? This game's 3D engine just boggles the mind. Its like they took the 8 year old DOS2 engine and build on top of that code; so the foundation is still this weird flimsy 3D of an engine that has TONS of no no rules. No flying, no day/night systems, no free camera...
With the boat load of cash BG3 will hopefully bring them, I really hope they design a brand new engine for DOS3...<sigh>
Last edited by Count Turnipsome; 15/03/2308:45 AM.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
Maybe if they did implement a faithful rules version and the current version for those who like silliness? Or at least give shield master the option or making enemies prone with their shove... but the best solution is too at least have the option of making shove an action that also enables you to prone enemies, and shield master can do those things as a bonus action.
Maybe if they did implement a faithful rules version and the current version for those who like silliness? Or at least give shield master the option or making enemies prone with their shove... but the best solution is too at least have the option of making shove an action that also enables you to prone enemies, and shield master can do those things as a bonus action.
Ideally that would be the case. Larian implements 5e RAW except for necessary changes for a video game adaptation, and then adds various toggle options. Doing this could also massively boost replayability by providing essentially entirely new combat experiences. - Cantrip surfaces: on/off - Shove (and other universal actions): action/bonus action - Jump: BA w/disengage / BA without Disengage / Free action - High/Low Ground: Advantage / +2 / no bonus - Backstab: Advantage / +2 / no bonus - Food: In-combat healing / Req for Resting etc
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp0WjkrtGED/ Case in point, brand new PR video on Instagram right now showcasing Shove as a fun and silly gimmick. "your free to toss folks to their doom..." God it looks bad. <sigh>
Last edited by Count Turnipsome; 15/03/2311:18 PM.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
