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Hey,
I was currently playing an oath of the ancients paladin. So far I had resolved most things peaceful. (Killing only in the crypt, in the tollhouse and some gnolls) When entering the destroyed village for the first time, I stopped the ambush with a successful intimidation roll. Then I went to the windmill. I had Wyll as companion, so the boss is now dead, the rest ran away.
Then I was playing around with Hamarhraft (deals damage around the location where you land when jumping), injured and subsequently killed one of the goblins in the destroyed village. When he died I lost my oath and got the oathbreaker invitation.
Now I'm confused. As a good aligned paladin, am I supposed to kill goblins? Or help them? Or just ignore them and let them do whatever they like? Or do I really have to make my decisions based on the personality of each individual goblin?

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I think it’s the disregard for other creature’s lives, rather than a goblin thing.

Jumping around with Hamarhaft is like reckless driving. Still, it’s not egregious, pay the bounty and get restored.

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I'm still wondering what's up with that. You get penalized for killing any yellow target as a paladin. The game currently doesn't account for extra rules around certain yellows. They're all the same to the code

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You can have an evil person that still obeys laws . . Killing your bank manager is still murder but according to Larian watching Shadowheart kill him is fine


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Didnt test it myself, bcs Paladin feels kinda weird in EA now ...
Cant really say why.

But i heared that if you dont do this:
Originally Posted by Brir
I stopped the ambush with a successful intimidation roll.
And Goblins are Hostile towards you, you dont break your oath ... but once you resolve encounter with them peacefully, they are concidered "not a threat", if you kill any of them afterwards, its breaking your oath, bcs you just ended life that could have ben spared.

But its just a speculation/rumor ... didnt test it myself.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Didnt test it myself, bcs Paladin feels kinda weird in EA now ...
Cant really say why.

But i heared that if you dont do this:
Originally Posted by Brir
I stopped the ambush with a successful intimidation roll.
And Goblins are Hostile towards you, you dont break your oath ... but once you resolve encounter with them peacefully, they are concidered "not a threat", if you kill any of them afterwards, its breaking your oath, bcs you just ended life that could have ben spared.

But its just a speculation/rumor ... didnt test it myself.
Everything's golden as long as you toggle on knockout instead of kill. Just have someone else finish the enemies off after combat

You're not allowed to kill anything that isn't trying to kill you/red dot on the map.

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Perfect for Shadowheart/Wyll/Gale with the Spellthief bow too.

Ah, such a paragon of virtue, the paladin of mercy... and murderhobo companions.

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Originally Posted by Brir
Hey,
I was currently playing an oath of the ancients paladin. So far I had resolved most things peaceful. (Killing only in the crypt, in the tollhouse and some gnolls) When entering the destroyed village for the first time, I stopped the ambush with a successful intimidation roll. Then I went to the windmill. I had Wyll as companion, so the boss is now dead, the rest ran away.
Then I was playing around with Hamarhraft (deals damage around the location where you land when jumping), injured and subsequently killed one of the goblins in the destroyed village. When he died I lost my oath and got the oathbreaker invitation.
Now I'm confused. As a good aligned paladin, am I supposed to kill goblins? Or help them? Or just ignore them and let them do whatever they like? Or do I really have to make my decisions based on the personality of each individual goblin?

Currently it does not matter what you are killing if it is an undead demon devil gnoll fey goblinoid. I f you knock the target out ak pacifying . And you are not an oath breaker.
Then you will get broken oath sooner or later.
As others say if you kill someone that is not generally aggressive towards to you. Is count as like killing Jesus it self.
Even if that someone you just knocked out. And died fom ground effects like lava fire acid moon beam ect.... Count as killing Jesus. I hope it helps I could not manage not even one time to finish ea w/o loosing my oath. And I tryed out 15 different builds.

Last edited by ZOZO1006; 09/03/23 01:39 PM.
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So then will a Paladin lose their oath if they only kill enemies that have initiated combat against the party? Or does this only apply if the Paladin starts combat?

It seems to make sense to me that someone who took an oath to not kill "innocents" would in fact be breaking that oath if they were the initial aggressor in killing anyone. Even if that anyone happened to have just slaughtered a village full of innocent children.

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Originally Posted by iBowfish
So then will a Paladin lose their oath if they only kill enemies that have initiated combat against the party? Or does this only apply if the Paladin starts combat?

It seems to make sense to me that someone who took an oath to not kill "innocents" would in fact be breaking that oath if they were the initial aggressor in killing anyone. Even if that anyone happened to have just slaughtered a village full of innocent children.
Yes and no. Sometimes the game glitches out and even red goblins are forbidden to be killed. I've not had that issue with anything that wasn't a goblin.

Normally, hard rule: dot was always red = kill, dot is yellow = oath broken. Cut scenes/dialogue may or may NOT be needed to convert type 2 into type 1. For example, after killing enough goblins in the fortress, some convert, but not all (like those in the dungeons with Halsin). Even if the whole fortress is HOSTILE, they are acting in yellow dot "self defense".

It doesn't matter who initiated combat, but not always. For example, it's completely okay to kill the false paladin of tyr after the dialogue option: die for abandoning my god! (Or something like that). It's also okay to walk a goblin leader into a trap and kill her for... asking you to abandon your god.

There's a few triggers that will make a paladin lose their oath (killing the owlbear, tieflings who captured Lae'Zel). They are all clear roleplay violations. The goblins are dubious and simply not allowed because they're yellow type enemies. I doubt there is a deeper meaning.

For my purposes... not removing the goblins from the road the tieflings want to travel through, and I'd sworn to protect, is extreme OOC. They don't leave when the absolute leaders fall and will commit murder. They're essentially bandits before they're goblins.

You ARE allowed to kill them, but ONLY after converting their type in dialogue. That means walking headfirst into their trap. You cannot change your mind after deceiving them, or do it any other way.

I suspect the blighted village is this annoying because of Wyll's quest. Larian doesn't want us to murder hobo a quest goblin, but we're (unfairly) not given a second chance to convert them. At minimum, killing the quest goblin should turn everyone perma hostile.

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Originally Posted by ZOZO1006
Originally Posted by Brir
Hey,
I was currently playing an oath of the ancients paladin. So far I had resolved most things peaceful. (Killing only in the crypt, in the tollhouse and some gnolls) When entering the destroyed village for the first time, I stopped the ambush with a successful intimidation roll. Then I went to the windmill. I had Wyll as companion, so the boss is now dead, the rest ran away.
Then I was playing around with Hamarhraft (deals damage around the location where you land when jumping), injured and subsequently killed one of the goblins in the destroyed village. When he died I lost my oath and got the oathbreaker invitation.
Now I'm confused. As a good aligned paladin, am I supposed to kill goblins? Or help them? Or just ignore them and let them do whatever they like? Or do I really have to make my decisions based on the personality of each individual goblin?

Currently it does not matter what you are killing if it is an undead demon devil gnoll fey goblinoid. I f you knock the target out ak pacifying . And you are not an oath breaker.
Then you will get broken oath sooner or later.
As others say if you kill someone that is not generally aggressive towards to you. Is count as like killing Jesus it self.
Even if that someone you just knocked out. And died fom ground effects like lava fire acid moon beam ect.... Count as killing Jesus. I hope it helps I could not manage not even one time to finish ea w/o loosing my oath. And I tryed out 15 different builds.
I've not had trouble knocking enemies out and then having a non paladin kill them. Generally, if they die from smite fire/radiant damage, or fire, it doesn't count as murder, either. I've not thrown acid onto knocked out targets with a paladin.

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Got it. Thanks for the deeply detailed clarification! Very much appreciated.

Last edited by iBowfish; 09/03/23 06:21 PM.
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Originally Posted by FreeTheSlaves
such a paragon of virtue, the paladin of mercy... and murderhobo companions.

I literally stopped my playtrough with the paladin for this. In fear of breaking the oath I just sent my companions to slaughter everything while I was the good boy and just loot the corpses.

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Me too! I've discovered I have to actually choose which companion to initiate dialogues (often Wyll), and discovered hidden dialogue lines this way.

Also, if in doubt I don't have my paladin deliver killing blows - or simply toggle on non-lethal.

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I find it really stupid that i break my oath for killing goblins, It should be the other way around, if i let them roam free to kill and plunder other innocents i have failed as a Paladin or a Good person in general.
I'd say it's equal to finding a bunch of landmines and just letting them lie there.
Just because they didn't explode in my face, doesn't mean that they wont in someone else's.

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Originally Posted by williams85
I find it really stupid that i break my oath for killing goblins, It should be the other way around, if i let them roam free to kill and plunder other innocents i have failed as a Paladin or a Good person in general.
I'd say it's equal to finding a bunch of landmines and just letting them lie there.
Just because they didn't explode in my face, doesn't mean that they wont in someone else's.

So, you should be able to walk up to any creature you deem to be evil and then kill them? Even if they are not attacking you? What if the creature in question wasn't evil, and had lived a life of helping people but because of your racism you just kill them. Should that break your oath?

Are you arguing that racism is an act of good?

I would say that if you are dealing with Devil, Demons or Yugoloths then you are in the right, because they are inherently evil. Even though they are part of the natural order - they are anathema to you and your beliefs so you have a strong case. They are not really a race of creatures as much as they are a byproduct of the evil of mortals distilled into living forms and objects.

However, Goblins are only "culturally evil" - the majority are evil because of how they are raised and the effect of their God Maglubiyet. Some are neutral, and some are even good. Many leave their tribes and live in cities and are adventurers and regular people, some even live in Baldur's gate. They figure out what is expected of them and adjust.

Last edited by Blackheifer; 19/03/23 04:05 PM.

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
So, you should be able to walk up to any creature you deem to be evil and then kill them? Even if they are not attacking you? What if the creature in question wasn't evil, and had lived a life of helping people but because of your racism you just kill them. Should that break your oath?

Personally I wouldn’t call it “stupid” that we break our oaths for killing goblins in BG3, as I agree it’s not straightforward, but I do think it’s wrong that killing goblins not attacking our paladin automatically breaks the oath and I do think that seen a certain way it could indeed be required by our oaths, specifically the tenet “Compassion. Aid others, protect the weak, and punish those who threaten them.” Paladins seem to have a quasi law-enforcement role in Faerun, and it seems expected that they might need to act as judge, jury and executioner. I’d agree that killing every goblin they met wouldn’t be seem very paladin-y to me, but the specific goblins we meet in BG3 have just carried out a raid on a nearby inn and clearly are preying on passing travellers as well as threatening the druid grove. It feels reasonable that a paladin might decide the best way they can protect the weak and punish those who threaten them is to kill those goblins, and that merely killing their leaders and scattering them would just lead to more innocent deaths elsewhere so would be an abdication of responsibility. My kind of paladin would probably wish they had had another option and regret that the killing, but they’d feel that they had both the authority and duty to do that as the lesser of available evils.


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I think we the player should be given a specific message as to why we have broken our oath. It would be clear to our character, so why not to us the player?

Larian code has specific conditions for this to happen, it wouldn't be so hard to have a line of text there too, would it?

Something like 'You treacherously broke the peace with [faction].'

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Originally Posted by The Red Queen
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
So, you should be able to walk up to any creature you deem to be evil and then kill them? Even if they are not attacking you? What if the creature in question wasn't evil, and had lived a life of helping people but because of your racism you just kill them. Should that break your oath?

Personally I wouldn’t call it “stupid” that we break our oaths for killing goblins in BG3, as I agree it’s not straightforward, but I do think it’s wrong that killing goblins not attacking our paladin automatically breaks the oath and I do think that seen a certain way it could indeed be required by our oaths, specifically the tenet “Compassion. Aid others, protect the weak, and punish those who threaten them.” Paladins seem to have a quasi law-enforcement role in Faerun, and it seems expected that they might need to act as judge, jury and executioner. I’d agree that killing every goblin they met wouldn’t be seem very paladin-y to me, but the specific goblins we meet in BG3 have just carried out a raid on a nearby inn and clearly are preying on passing travellers as well as threatening the druid grove. It feels reasonable that a paladin might decide the best way they can protect the weak and punish those who threaten them is to kill those goblins, and that merely killing their leaders and scattering them would just lead to more innocent deaths elsewhere so would be an abdication of responsibility. My kind of paladin would probably wish they had had another option and regret that the killing, but they’d feel that they had both the authority and duty to do that as the lesser of available evils.

Oh I totally agree, but the game gives you every opportunity to challenge the Goblins directly - in a law enforcement role - and to back down/leave or face your justice.

I think what William85 was arguing was that if a goblin is just walking about and is not attacking him that he should be allowed to just straight up attack without any conversation. That's an extraordinarily bad idea for a number of reasons - not least of all that he is violating his oath by not seeking a peaceful resolution first. But especially if they are holding prisoners (which we already know they are doing) and so a little subterfuge and diplomacy is WAY better there.

Oath of Vengeance probably gives you a lot more leeway in regards to who you attack, but IT'S NOT a "License to Kill" either. Your "no mercy" rule only applies to your sworn enemies. If you decide Goblins are your "Sworn enemies" then so be it but it seems like a waste of a "sworn enemies" card.


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If you kill neutral enemies = oathbreaker ..not sure if that’s immediately but neutral is off limits


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