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Before I said my final verdict about the game I waited to come out the whole game, and played through the whole story. But after this, I can say B.G.3 is an utmost disappointment which is absolutely unworthy to it's predecesors!
And before I start to say why, I forwardly say, I absolutely don't care about the "overhyped" fanboys and fangirls soo deep opininons which is in the "doesn't matter what’s in it, just call it B.G. and that's good/awsome" level, because that type of opinions doesn't change the facts!

Which facts is:

Let's start with the E.A. and the final game differences:
In the E.A. (and in Act 1) some interesting and new solution (speak to the dead and animals) which worked and good in the there, but somehow Larian forgot to keep that inovations level in the late game! In E.A./Act 1 nearly after every battle or every new place have at least one dead who can gave you important or at least interesting information, form Act 2 it's soo seldom (used after every battle and in every new places) and so useless, that's become a real supprise when you get at least a little information. The very same to the speak to the animals!

In E.A./Act 1 most of the NPCs really looks like to reacting and remembering to the player's party and actions, but form the start of Act 2 many NPC looks like have some kind of split consciousness or schizophrenia because many of their actions and reactions doesn't reflect at all to the Act 1 events and players choises in Act one! For example some of the Tieflings in the Last Light Inn is even Acting like it's the first time to see the player and only in the 2nd 3rd conversation reacting as "Oh that's you are... (from Act1)"! Which is a sloppy and lazy programing!

So technically the E.A. was just a great "peasant blinding" to cover the whole games deficiencies!

BTW because already mentioned the Tieflings from Act 1: So the Tieflings who can't handle the mere Goblins and whining in the whole Act 1 about that:"We are not fighters, and we can't survive in the road!" Somehow magicly become soo brave that they run headtowardly to the deep in the Shadowcursed lands insted simply bypass the whole area! (in one of the loading screen have a great wiev about how big is the shadow cursed area and how far far far far.... hugh clear places aroud it) Did any other noticed this hugh logical gap in the events?! Which is a sloppy and lazy story writing!
The next really big logical black hole in the story is the whole Act 2 events. Ketheric Thorm turn to Shar because his daughter is died and in the same time he become Myrkul's chosen....?! Which is the next episode of the logical mind f@*., Why? because if anybody tought that Shar is a kind and happy to sharing godess that person is utmostly wrong or simply stupid as hell! Not a chance that "Oh I kindly give the shadowcurse to you, and let you to use it for Myrkul's sake and the rise of Myrkul's power"! From Shar and about her behaviors I highly recommend (especially to the Larian „story writers”) to read "Paul S. Kemp The Twillight War" novel series!
The next step is the story's main plot which is the Dead Three make a high risk (and at the best) minimal reward gambit to create a "new god" to raise their own power about only one(!) city! (doesn't matter how many time in the game mentioned "It's a danger to the whole Swordcoast" bacause if they sucsseded in their original plan they get rule over only B.G.! Conversation with Gortash) And the top of that, that 3 Gods(!) do that for the manipulation of a simple illithid elder brain....?! Again what is this sh*t, if an elderbrain have influence over the faerunian gods (which isn't not in a million years) that mean the illithids Grad Design is already happend and the whole story is pointless!
Again even Faerun's evil gods doesn't that stupid to raise a power which don't raise their own domains=> Even in the Second Sundering, AO doesn't cleared the rule that "the gods power and influence is equal to their mortal followers number and faith"!
Again I highly recommend to read the Ciencin, Denning and Lowder's "The Avatar" Novel Series especially the last book of the series: „Troy Denning Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad”
The next unbelievable mind f@*. is the whole Raphael character, who is Mephistopheles Archdevil's Cambion son. So (from the story) the Crown of Karsus is just sitting in Mephistopheleses vitrin and after that it's stolen and Raphale wanted and plotting to use to overthrow every Archdevils in Baator, that time dear old daddy Mephistopheles is just sitting in his butt and maybe playing chess or poker with his favourite Erinyes concubine and do absolutely nothing about the case....?! Not a chance ever! Again any other noticed this tremendous logical black hole in the story? Again I highly recommend about Mephistopheles behaviours, and how he didn't interest and didn’t interfere about his offsprings doing to read "Paul S. Kemp The Twillight War" novel series!
In this part of the "story", from Baator has another agent (Mizora) in the scene, and she doesn't want or even try to use the whole situation for her own Archdevil's benefits...?! Not in a million years! Again soo sloppy and lazy story writing! Again educational about the Archdevils and Baator’s other devils and halfdevils acting and their behaviours, highly recommend to read the "The Sundering" novel series especially the 3rd book "The Adversary"!
Not to mention Sarevok and Viconia reappearing in the story! In Quality(!) RPG games where the players different choices make different endings to the certain characters (in this case Viconia and Sarevok) the good or simply toughtful story writes doesn't force a continuation over the players previous choices! But for this type of story writeing need at least a little talent, which is in here looks like have a hugh lack...! BTW my Sarevok in Throne of Bhaal had converted to Chaotic Good and went to Kara-Tur where never returned and my Viconia converted to Neutral Good and because was the lover of the M.C. died in the epilogue, Thank you so much! The others have other endings? No Problem at all, nobody force them to choose the same fate for their companions as I did, but for the continuation writers MUST NEED TO RESPECT BOTH VERSION! Which is clearly not happend in here! Sloppy untoughtful and lazy story writing again! Unworthy to any previous Baldur's Gate game!

Now let’s see the game other aspects:
Starting with the character creation and inside the „High-Elf” bulls#.! The great writer Ed Greenwood created his fantasy world the Forgotten Realms and made the first publish in 1987 where was many Elf Subraces among them the most common is the Moon Elves and Sun Elves. And somehow that was good for the last more than 35 years, but came the E5 with full of it's supidity and somehow the Moon Elves and Sun Elves suddenly and magically transform to High Elves and lose all their previous unique traits and appearance traits?! What is this mind f@#. again, just because some marketing idiot become a hughe Skyrim fan and to make the "cool factor" (multimedia developer so I know how it works) higher need to shamelessly copy everything? And I don't give a damn about that's what it is in the E5! What is wrong or incorrect even in the guide book can be correctify in the games! BTW, the word High-Elf is a collective noun for every Seldarine elven race (among them the Wood Elves and The Seldarine Drows as well)! Again educationally how deeply different the Elf subraces highly recommend to read "Elaine Cunningham Evermeet: The Island of Elves"!

The next thing is the Drows which is not a standalone race but a subrace of the elves! And that media parade what Larian done about the reason: why need to make the drows as a separate race, is the biggest "hogwash" which I ever heard since the Blizzard tried to prove that (in a 12-15 minutes video) the Diablo 3 Crusader isn't the same as the Diablo 2 Paladin! (yes only graphicaly was really different) The reason was they said is: (crudely) "because they want to give more, and more significant dialogue options to the drows..." What a joke, the directly Seldarine Drow dialogue options is so seldom (3-4 and most of that that is only in the Act 1) and soo insignificant in the whole game that doesn't matter at all! And the direct drow dialogue option is just that frequent as any others and don't give any real differences than the others!
So the whole reasoning was just a big old "peasant blinding" to cover their sloppy and lazy programing about they don't put 2 conditions into the programing instead of just 1! Newsflash in Neverwinter Nights 2 somehow worked the drow dialogue options perfectly, even when they was correctly appeared as subrace of the elves!
And what is this ABSOLUTE LIE about the Lolth-Sworn Drows red eyes?! If ever was a Drows how wasn't Lolth-Sworn besides Drizzt is Jarlaxle and Zaknafein! Newsflash BOTH HAVE RED EYES because the drows red eyes is just a racial trait which is btw common trait among all Underdark races and don't have any connection to their religion! Again newsflash have many red eye drows among the seldarine belivers! So dear Larian writers, educationally please read any R.A. Salvatore Drizzt novel, or the "War of The Spider Queen" novel series which have show many Lolth-Sworn drows who hasn't got red eyes BTW!

And what is this Aylin is an aasimar?! Quote from the E5 PHB if they so like that: "Whether descended from a celestial being or infused with heavenly power, aasimar are mortals who carry a spark of the upper planes in their souls"
Which means the aasimars is a descendent of a celestial gods servant (angelic being) of the Upper planes (just as the tieflings is a descendant of a Lower plane creature) usually a Deva, a Solar or a Planetar! So if this Aylin is the direct daughter of Selune that mean she is a Half-God (or in other terms God Spawn (like the Bhaal spawn), God Child, or a Demigod) but definitely not an aasimar. Or if she is an aasimar, that mean she isn't the direct daugther of Selune! So again a sloppy and lazy writing!

The possible companions number is pitiful, and the so called Hirelings is more pitiful! For example there isn't any other thief among the detailed companions just Astarion! In the quality RPG games have at least two different companion in the same class if the player don't like for some reason to one or the other they can chose!

Can continue with Minsc and the lack of his berserker ability, and can continue the game's wrong, incorrect, illogical and even lie point's listing to the next week.... and even that's just become the tip of the iceberg!

So for educational, dear Larian Studios take an example about Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous (or at least the original Baldur's Gate series)! In every topic, story writing, characters deepnes or diversity, rules implemetations, game technics, correctnes to the fantasy world's lore... etc. that game and their developer team is more worthy to the name "Baldur's Gate" than you or your game ever can be!

Since Neverwinter Nights 1 I never saw any Faerun incorrect game as this is! So thanks Larian to tarnished the Baldur's Gate name with your incorrect so called "knowledge" and some point even lies! I just hope if a developer team (and heartfully hope you r team don't tarnishing further again) again touch the title Baldur's Gate they will be have more respect to the world Faerun and more detailed in the world's knowledge than you, and they create a game which is really worthy to the title Baldur’s Gate from every viewpoint!

Last edited by Zillak; 18/08/23 05:30 PM. Reason: Added spoiler tags
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Please folks, remember your spoiler tags.

And while I’m here: it’s perfectly possible to express your own criticisms of the game without taking digs at people who have different preferences and opinions. I’d ask that we do that.


"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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Sir, this is a Wendy's.

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Dear "The Red Queen" If I writed what I wish to said too harshly, for that I apologize! But what I wrote is sadly a real and growing behaviour! Even with this I personally respect that other's can have other and different oppinion! The reason why I writed that part is just to clarify: to make forwardly to that dear players from that point "We agree to disagree!" (again if I choosed wrong or too harsh words I appologize for that! but only for that!)
Dear "Alibied" The truth is usually annoying especially these days! wink

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Originally Posted by Alibied
Sir, this is a Wendy's.

This made me snort out loud.

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Okay, no offense, but you have some strange priorities. Why start with speak with dead and animals, features that cost you nothing. There's too many potions and the spell is a freebie.

Then, you seem to have missed some very important lore.
For example, the dead three want to kill all the citizens of Bg. They don't care about the elder brain. In fact, a certain undead mocks them because mindflayers lose their souls, therefore making the plan shit. (It's also a netherbrain, was it? Not a mere illithid random brain. That's seemingly much more powerful)

Sarevok and Viconia actually have a canon ending. Therefore your choices in the last games mean nothing. Larian softened just how bad canon turned out for them.

There's many things wrong with the game, but these points? A discredit to your argument. Everyone and their mom has complaints about insufficient reactivity from Act 2 on. The lack of companion content. The endings that are a throw back to mass effect 3, if not blatant trolling. None of this is controversial

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If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.

As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.

I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.

OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.

As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
Act 1 was beyond excellent. I'm starting to realize that I actually hated Act 2, and I do not say that lightly. I think Act 2 makes for probably one of the worst sections of an RPG... almost everything about it was unsatisfying: the narrative, the reactivity, the exploration, the scope, the character development, the choices, the structure of activities, almost all of it.


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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.

As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.

I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.

OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
I did, in fact, read all of it. Thank you for once again making assumptions that are illogical. It's starting to paint a clear picture. Very helpful. Not in the way you intended, but helpful nonetheless (no, this is not sarcasm, either).

Unfortunately, the post relies strongly on assumptions which are false, while ignoring points widely accepted as fair criticism. Perhaps to make room for the controversial, this was an intentional choice. Unfortunately -- once again -- the way the points are presented, in order and accuracy, does not do it any favours.

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Originally Posted by Silver/
I did, in fact, read all of it. Thank you for once again making assumptions that are illogical. It's starting to paint a clear picture. Very helpful. Not in the way you intended, but helpful nonetheless (no, this is not sarcasm, either).

Ease off the trigger Silver, your post wasn't even there when I started writing my response, I wasn't talking to you.

edit: making it NICE

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.

As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.

I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.

OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.

Pretty much this (the organization suggestion bit).

I just saw a giant wall of text, skimmed through it and read ridiculous ranting about Sun and Moon Elves and Drow being categorized separately and said “I’m not reading this nonsense,” and then went to see if there were want good snarky responses. Was not disappointed.

Last edited by Warlocke; 18/08/23 06:38 PM.
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Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.

As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.

I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.

OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.

Pretty much this (the organization suggestion bit).

I just saw a giant wall of text, skimmed through it and read ridiculous ranting about Sun and Moon Elves and Drow being categorized separately and said “I’m not reading this nonsense,” and then went to see if there were want good snarky responses. Was not disappointed.
I'd inject forum snark directly into my veins if I could.


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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by Silver/
I did, in fact, read all of it. Thank you for once again making assumptions that are illogical. It's starting to paint a clear picture. Very helpful. Not in the way you intended, but helpful nonetheless (no, this is not sarcasm, either).

Ease off the trigger Silver, your post wasn't even there when I started writing my response, I wasn't talking to you.

edit: making it NICE
Alright, I apologize.

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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I'd inject forum snark directly into my veins if I could.

[Linked Image from media.tenor.com]

Originally Posted by silver
Alright, I apologize.

I swear, we write our comments at the exact same time lol. I've been snarky to you before, so I can understand why you were quick to think I was attacking you.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I'd inject forum snark directly into my veins if I could.

[Linked Image from media.tenor.com]

Originally Posted by silver
Alright, I apologize.

I swear, we write our comments at the exact same time lol. I've been snarky to you before, so I can understand why you were quick to think I was attacking you.
Let me rephrase:
I'd inject forum snark that's not directed at me directly into my veins if I could.


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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I'd inject forum snark that's not directed at me directly into my veins if I could.

lol, it was understood. I usually love the snark as well.

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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Act 1 was beyond excellent. I'm starting to realize that I actually hated Act 2, and I do not say that lightly. I think Act 2 makes for probably one of the worst sections of an RPG... almost everything about it was unsatisfying: the narrative, the reactivity, the exploration, the scope, the character development, the choices, the structure of activities, almost all of it.

I still prefer Act 2 to Act 3 ... Act 3 is just strange and feels rushed and unfinished (haven't completed it though). Granted, Act 2 had it's problems, but they aren't as obvious as in Act 3.

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I read the about 90% of the post, I just thought it was a funny thing to say given the overall tone from the op. I also agree with the sentiment that the game begins to fall off in the second and third acts. Don't worry, I'm not here to defend some of the poor writing, just to try and make a joke.

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Originally Posted by Kendaric
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Act 1 was beyond excellent. I'm starting to realize that I actually hated Act 2, and I do not say that lightly. I think Act 2 makes for probably one of the worst sections of an RPG... almost everything about it was unsatisfying: the narrative, the reactivity, the exploration, the scope, the character development, the choices, the structure of activities, almost all of it.

I still prefer Act 2 to Act 3 ... Act 3 is just strange and feels rushed and unfinished (haven't completed it though). Granted, Act 2 had it's problems, but they aren't as obvious as in Act 3.
I am barely through Act 3. If it is worse than the Shadow-Cursed Lands, this game is going from a 9 to an 8 for me.


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Every CRPG since BG2 is unworthy in comparison to BG2. That doesn't mean those games are bad.

You just have to face the facts that another game on BG2s scale will never happen, not just because developers won't make it, but Wizards of the Coast won't allow older rulesets to be used for new DnD games.

I think I realized this around 10-15 years ago when I was alos like 'Why wont anyone make another game like BG2?'.

Eventually I gave up after realizing it simply won't ever happen.

Last edited by DumbleDorf; 18/08/23 07:39 PM.
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