Well my first experience posting on reddit went as well as I thought it would go...gone in 60 seconds.
So I'll have this be the last post I make in quite some time because I'm taking a break from playing BG3.
Now I know there is a discussion goin on about Karlachs and Mintharas cut content (which I also hope gets fixed) on these forums whereas Shadoheart discussion has been taking place on some other forums and boards.(yeah) But I want to make this last post in hopes that Larian does something about it. (I think this is the first time where I actually got rattled by a video game lol - time to touch grass)
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-Shadowheart, romance, kinks and character ruination-
Isn't that a juicy title!
(My apologies if the formatting is off, my first time posting on reddit.)
Now that we got that out of the way, nice of you to join me. I'll try to keep this short but do bear (ugh) with me.
Spoilers obviously!
In all honesty I've been playing this game excessively for the past month and despite my enjoyment of it the only feeling I am left with is disappointment.
I've tried it all, I've explored it all and the deeper I delve into it the more this game falls apart for me.
From the poor performance (memory leaks, frame rate drops) to the bugs (quest breaking, items disappearing, flags not being properly set) and even the big bad cut content (companions talking about events that can't happen in the game, NPCs that are not finished showing up - Alfira/Dragonborn bard etc.) my main gripe with this game has always been its writing.
As always writing and what someone enjoys has always been subjective but despite me never expecting stellar writing from video games, Baldur's Gate 3 has lead me to the point where my suspension of disbelief just isn't working anymore.
From the Emperor to the Githyanki, from Karlach to Minsc every so often you can run into some scene that make no sense and would leave you baffled. But if I were to start writing about all of it this post would never end.
So I will stick with one thing that's been irritating me to no end. Maybe I'm just mad on the internet but the audacity of the writers to put this into the game has left me laughing.
I honestly don't know what the intent behind this was. Not seeing how it would be interpreted as? Trying to be stealth like and shove their fetish into the game at the expense of a character and the players enjoyment? Or strait up malice? But whatever it is I haven't seen anyone that has discovered it like it.
And what am I talking about, what am I making so dramatic as to pull you in so you would read my post you ask. Well romance of course, Shadowhearts to be more precise.
When I play RPGs I like to role play as different characters and experience the world through their eyes and one of those character (3rd playthrough) ended up romancing Shadowheart.
From her ties to the main story to her romance everything seemed nice but unfortunately all of that fell apart because of one little companion banter popping up.
Shadowhearts story is one of self discovery and choosing how to deal with her trauma. Kidnapped from her parents at the young age the only thing she has know was abuse. Forty years of her life have been in the embrace of a jealous and uncaring goddess that she so desperately tries to impress. But despite her ties to Shar throughout her story you will find out that there is more to her than meets the eye.
If you decide to go through her romance you will experience something sweet. From heartbreak to finding love, a true fairytale romance if you want to call it that. (At least the reject Shar route) Obviously there was an idea when it came to this character and they leaned into it heavily. And that is exactly what everyone that blasted through the main romance with her ended up getting.
But underneath that sickly sweet romance hides something else. One writers poorly written fan-fiction that is entirely divorced from her story and if you accidently stumble upon it (damn youtube) you will realize how it ruins her character.
What do I speak of? Halsin, polyamory and cheating. I won't go into the whole zoo and bear thing that Larian was more than willing to brag about but even he ended up being a shallow character because of the overreliance on kink and not enough development.
If you went through Shadohearts entire story and romance you would know that she is not really keen on sharing and even if the opportunity arises for something spicier she wants the focus to be on her and the main character. And yet this is the party banter that shows up after finishing her storyline, unprompted without ever having a conversation about it or pursuing both she flirts with another companion after professing her love to the MC.
Maybe its a bug that came from all of the flags being broken and that banter was meant for a MC that is pursuing both, maybe. But seeing what other little things show up after finishing her romance lead me to think otherwise. The famous drow twins scene that you admittedly need to go out of your way to initiate still leaves a bitter taste behind, implying that these thoughts are there even if you don't go through with it.
Despite talking about love and spending the rest of her life with the romanced MC.
Despite being portrayed as someone that is opposed and upset with the idea of opening her relationship and sharing, (which by the way happens with every single companion in the game and even if you don't romance her she tells Wyll when he flirts with her that she will not play a second fiddle to anyone).
She straight up goes into thirst mode for him to the point where the MC is being ignored, an the funniest thig about this whole situation isn't even the fact that both Shadoheart and Halsin share the same writer is that if you reject Halsin, Shadowheart disaproves.
I'm sorry but I can't look at this scene and the sharing/poly conversation where Shadowheart is down to opening the relationship with Halsin (again despite rejecting everyone else and talking about not wanting to share and be your spare lover) as nothing more than some writers self insert/fetish. Halsin is obviously a writers pet and for some reason characters that were established a certain way should change so he can get the fan-fiction that he wants. (Even Astarion that doesn't feel comfortable with sharing is okay with Halsin)
Even better is the fact that the drow and poly scenes are divorced from the rest of these companions stories to the point that the game still treats it as if it never happened. So it does feel shoved in.
This is a perfect example of one writers idea ignoring the focus of any video game and who or what is meant to be the focus. (the player)
Even if someone wants to bring up the Mizora scene and Shadowhearts past about her being mind wiped every week and encouraged to have fleeting relationships/casual sex with other acolytes (which is another discussion about abuse and tricking an amnesiac) she still isn't into sharing/open relationships and is mad you didn't ask. Open relationships/poly =/= hook ups.
So no I don't want to go through a whole game where a character is portrayed one way but as soon as you finish their story suddenly the writers cuck fetish rears its head and contradicts everything the character had said up to that point.
If they really wanted that option they had the perfect opportunity with the dark Shadowheart (embrace Shar). Because at least in that version it makes sense seeing how Shadowheart fully commits to Shar and Sharan way of life, no commitments/quick pleasurers of the flesh and cheating.
And its not even a Shadowheart thing, if it was any other companion I would have the same reaction. Because believe it or not I don't like it, like I don't like many other things in this game that make no sense. Like that Astarions ending scene being played up for laughs. Yeah he's burning in the sun, way to ruin the moment.
How would people feel if Alistair after romancing him went onto flirt with Morrigan, disapproving if you don't allow him to have a threesome with her and talk about how he really wanted her and he's been thirsting/dreaming about her while ignoring the MC. I don't think many people would've been happy with that.
What about Judy from Cyberpunk having a quick phone call at the end of her romance where she tells Maiko how she really wants her.
Regardless of you gender, race or sexual orientation I would say that the majority of people playing videogames are not looking for a surprise cuck option but a power fantasy (at least in some shape or form).
If you wanted to write a character that focuses on cheating and betrayal or even a properly written poly relationship why not do it? Why opt for trickery and hide it. People had no issues with Isabela from Dragon Age 2 because there were no hidden scenes and you knew what you were getting with her.
Either way I'm honestly getting tired of it and just want to enjoy video games. Hope they remedy that shit alongside other problems this game has when the Definitive Edition comes.
Thanks for reading my rant I guess
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And with that, I'm out. Wish you guys all the best and hope all those story/character problems get fixed soon and if not soon when the Definitive Edition comes.
Fully agree with all you wrote, from the bugs to the fetish part.
Halsin and Astarion are the 'star' companions from Larian's perspective. It was no coincidence that it was Halsin and Astarion in the ridiculous bear scene.
As more people finish the game, more posts are appearing expressing disappointment with endings or confusion with the story. This game is nowhere near as good as the hype claims.
The graphics are okay but not great - I use reshader which blows the vanilla graphics out of the water. Character Creation is pretty basic - 2 or 3 body shapes, less than a dozen heads, no sliders for anything. Lack of a decent number of companions. Poor writing with too many modern phrases. Far too many cutscenes - if I want 'cinematics' I'll go to the cinema. Overly complicated, rubbish story which is mostly a vehicle to allow the name-dropping of every deity in the Faerun pantheon and walk-on parts for NPCs from the original BG games - Jaheira, Minsc, Volo, Elminster, etc.
Okay, first, let me go into Avocatus Diaboli mode. This sort of thing actually happened in Bg2, as well. If you were Romancing Aerie and brought Haer Dalis along, he'd steal your girl and there was nothing you could do about it.
Alright, now for the real answer.
It has to do with.. 'Modern writing', and 'the message'. It's so on the nose, and so apparant that it actually breaks the fourth wall, for me. All the girls on the team are emasculated, capable, take matters into their own hands and all their troubles are created by external forces, which they face head on. No problem there, if it weren't for the fact that all the guys on the team are effeminate, whiney, selfish and irresponsible and couldn't make a decent decision if they tried. And I'll put Halsin as the top contender for these traits.
Of course, everyone is gay if you want them to be, but also if you don't want them to be - Wyll is going to woo you with his ballet moves regardless. Astarion will call you darling the entire campaign, and not once do you get to address that. Gale, who previously dated the Goddess of Magic, suddenly declares he's in love with my sweaty, murderous Dwarven Berserker, back hair and all, who actively ignores his longwinded conversations and refused his quest constantly.
Not so long ago, I mentioned Mass Effect on these forums, saying how that was way too easy with the romances. IN the last Panel from Hell, they were really proud of how they did the romances, how it wasn't just 'do their quest and bang'
But it's WORSE than that. At least in Mass Effect, there were the obvious flirt options to initiate a romance line. Not here. Everyone wants you and will come for you. There'not even a do-their-quest. It's talk to them, and say either yes or no, and for most of what I've seen, that yes goes to sex RIGHT from there. And.. it stays there, too. UNtil you reach the epilogue, it hardly comes up again.
And the worst part is, you better pick one, too - because everyone will be gunning for you if you don't. Even Withers complains if you don't. HE even complains to the NPC's they don't.
It's weird how you're navigating romantic advances from characters like Gale or Wyll before establishing a simple friendship. Having to reject Wyll after he did his gay dance broke my heart, he looked so sad! And yeah, for some reason I had to reload my save after Gale's gay sex scene, because it locks you out of the Shadowheart scene, but she permits you doing bestiality with Halsin.
The Emperor's gay sex scene is seemingly trivial, you get a steam achievement as a sort of badge of shame, that's it.
It's weird how you're navigating romantic advances from characters like Gale or Wyll before establishing a simple friendship. Having to reject Wyll after he did his gay dance broke my heart, he looked so sad! And yeah, for some reason I had to reload my save after Gale's gay sex scene, because it locks you out of the Shadowheart scene, but she permits you doing bestiality with Halsin.
The Emperor's gay sex scene is seemingly trivial, you get a steam achievement as a sort of badge of shame, that's it.
Man you really told Wyll:
Also, I don't think that the Emperor scene technically counts as homosexual or heterosexual either way. While the original host may have been male, technically the Emperor is the final form of a sexless Illithid tadpole. Omeluum could have been a woman at some point and we'd still refer to him as a he just out of convenience I suppose. But neither Emperor or Omeluum have sexes or genders, as the species reproduces asexually.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
BG3 romances operate in a state similar to the Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment. All things are possible until states are revealed.
So in my first play through Shadowheart was a faithful monogamous true love.
But, if you ignore the signs and have Halsin in the party, he's going to influence outcomes according to his well publicized sexual behaviour. If you don't want that influence seeping in, you'll need to omit him from the party and/or don't converse with him.
And frankly, for a faster play through, best to limit party members. In future play throughs I'm not going to do whole team anymore.
BG3 romances operate in a state similar to the Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment. All things are possible until states are revealed.
So in my first play through Shadowheart was a faithful monogamous true love.
But, if you ignore the signs and have Halsin in the party, he's going to influence outcomes according to his well publicized sexual behaviour. If you don't want that influence seeping in, you'll need to omit him from the party and/or don't converse with him.
And frankly, for a faster play through, best to limit party members. In future play throughs I'm not going to do whole team anymore.
I like to do whole team, but Halsin brings nothing to the table that Jaheira can't too and I liek her more, so he stays mostly in camp.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Also, I don't think that the Emperor scene technically counts as homosexual or heterosexual either way. While the original host may have been male, technically the Emperor is the final form of a sexless Illithid tadpole. Omeluum could have been a woman at some point and we'd still refer to him as a he just out of convenience I suppose. But neither Emperor or Omeluum have sexes or genders, as the species reproduces asexually.
It just seems like the culmination of ''Baldur's Gay'' to me that even this cthulu looking squid dude starts making romantic advances towards you. I understand your point about the Emperor being the final form of a sexless Illithid tadpole and that Omeluum might not have a specific gender due to their asexual reproduction. However, what I'm curious about is why would have romantic interest at all then, they would be asexual aromantic.
Originally Posted by fylimar
I like to do whole team, but Halsin brings nothing to the table that Jaheira can't too and I liek her more, so he stays mostly in camp.
I send him to camp when I reached the city and he immediately
got kidnapped by Orin. Which was nice, because I don't think he has anything to do in Act 3 and Jaheira already fills the druid slot in your party.
BG3 romances operate in a state similar to the Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment. All things are possible until states are revealed.
So in my first play through Shadowheart was a faithful monogamous true love.
But, if you ignore the signs and have Halsin in the party, he's going to influence outcomes according to his well publicized sexual behaviour. If you don't want that influence seeping in, you'll need to omit him from the party and/or don't converse with him.
And frankly, for a faster play through, best to limit party members. In future play throughs I'm not going to do whole team anymore.
Firstly, that supports my point about Halsin (and Astarion) being the star companions. Secondly, it is bad writing or writing to support a particular agenda if an NPC is the driver and not the PC. Thirdly, Knowing it is better to leave out Halsin is due to hindsight.
Schrödinger's Cat? It more like Hobson's choice. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Hobson's%20choice
I find it interesting that there are a lot fewer posts about Astarion than Halsin or several other NPCs.
I killed Astarion at the start when he pulled a knife on me. I rescued Haslin in the goblin camp mainly due to the Grove quest and the 'find the Nightsong' quest. I never had any intention of having him my party and didn't want him in my camp.
Listening to Swen's description of development, he delegates down to lowest level of authority to complete tasks, which he play tests. So we're encountering all styles of story throughout the game.
Can you elaborate a bit more on Halsin and Astarion being star companions? I don't quite get it. In my play throughs they weren't used much, saw little development and had minor endings.
I think I saw Halsin's ability scores and thought heck no, he needs higher strength (same as Minsc!). I had him do a few shadowcurse lands outings, but core companions already wore tailored gear and had developed party tactics, Halsin wasn't optimized nor synergised.
Astarion? Man, my devotion paladin was never really able to get his attitude very high, he'd always disapprove. Put him in camp whenever possible rather than suffer naggings.
Yeah, Hobson's choice for some companions who don't evolve much. For Minsc or Halsin you can take 'em or leave 'em. I guess I was thinking more Lae'zel and Shadowheart.
Talk about NPC who steal thunder, I've got a bone to pick with Dame Aylin
overdoing the paladin schtick. Talks in third person, has natural flight and if you take her words literally, which given her undying nature seems believable*, is an actual daughter of Selune. And what's with all the Jesus posing? (Withers too!)
Wow. The writer must have thought 'I'll show those paladin players what's what.' It's borderline DMPC antics to upstage the MC paladin. Nevermind she's only Fire elemental quality in actual fights.
*In a world with wizards and soul cages, this trait is a total liability. Given she's ageless, she'll be targeted endlessly and end up spending hundreds more years entrapped.
I honestly don't see Astarion and Halsin as star companions too. I would like an explanation too, if that's ok. I mean, Astarion is a fan favourite, granted. And he has a bit more involvment with the story, but Halsin is just boring. He fizzles out after act 2 and has only the polyarmoury going for him. I tried talking to him a few times, took him with me on a few occasions to see, if there is a quest popping up, but no, he jsut hits on my girl. So I parked him back at his tent and did go back to the companions, that actually have stories to tell. I mean, yeah, he became infamous because of THAT scene, but that's about it. I think, a star companion would be a bit more in the middle of things.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
It's weird how you're navigating romantic advances from characters like Gale or Wyll before establishing a simple friendship. Having to reject Wyll after he did his gay dance broke my heart, he looked so sad! And yeah, for some reason I had to reload my save after Gale's gay sex scene, because it locks you out of the Shadowheart scene, but she permits you doing bestiality with Halsin.
The Emperor's gay sex scene is seemingly trivial, you get a steam achievement as a sort of badge of shame, that's it.
'' Gay dance '' rofl. But yeah I really didn't like how I felt like I couldn't just have nice '' friends '' moments with Wyll and Gale in particular. It felt like the game was reaaaally trying to push me into romantic situations with them when I just wanted to be friends with them. Especially since I played a Warlock and I considered them my '' magic buddies '', I also sympathized with Wyll and wanted to help him with the Mizora situation.
Ngl in regards to the bear sex thing. I do think some people were mad about it in bad faith and were just trying to cause political drama crap because apparently this is going to be a thing with every game now. Same with people being upset about '' beauty mods '' and trying to gender and politicize it when the same mods exist for both and all the characters ( did people only just now find out about mods??? ). But on the other hand it was really weird to see so many people unironically trying to justify it as '' not beastiality '' by saying '' well it's a person in bear form, not an actual bear ''. Okay... So by that logic if he turned into a minor instead that'd be okay because '' he's an adult actually ''? Like cmon... It is what it is, and yes it is weird and I do think it's understandable why a lot of people would get upset and feel offended about it.
Listening to Swen's description of development, he delegates down to lowest level of authority to complete tasks, which he play tests. So we're encountering all styles of story throughout the game.
Can you elaborate a bit more on Halsin and Astarion being star companions? I don't quite get it. In my play throughs they weren't used much, saw little development and had minor endings.
I think I saw Halsin's ability scores and thought heck no, he needs higher strength (same as Minsc!). I had him do a few shadowcurse lands outings, but core companions already wore tailored gear and had developed party tactics, Halsin wasn't optimized nor synergised.
Astarion? Man, my devotion paladin was never really able to get his attitude very high, he'd always disapprove. Put him in camp whenever possible rather than suffer naggings.
Yeah, Hobson's choice for some companions who don't evolve much. For Minsc or Halsin you can take 'em or leave 'em. I guess I was thinking more Lae'zel and Shadowheart.
Talk about NPC who steal thunder, I've got a bone to pick with Dame Aylin
overdoing the paladin schtick. Talks in third person, has natural flight and if you take her words literally, which given her undying nature seems believable*, is an actual daughter of Selune. And what's with all the Jesus posing? (Withers too!)
Wow. The writer must have thought 'I'll show those paladin players what's what.' It's borderline DMPC antics to upstage the MC paladin. Nevermind she's only Fire elemental quality in actual fights.
*In a world with wizards and soul cages, this trait is a total liability. Given she's ageless, she'll be targeted endlessly and end up spending hundreds more years entrapped.
She *is* a daughter of Selune. She's aasimar, meaning has a celestial in the parentage. Think of her as kinda a Jesus Christ thing. Instead of the son of God, she's the daughter of the Moonmaiden.
The Dame MIGHT be exaggerating. In 5E, Aasimar are a PC race notable for being the equal opposites of Tieflings, and having radiant and necrotic resistance.
Also, I don't think that the Emperor scene technically counts as homosexual or heterosexual either way. While the original host may have been male, technically the Emperor is the final form of a sexless Illithid tadpole. Omeluum could have been a woman at some point and we'd still refer to him as a he just out of convenience I suppose. But neither Emperor or Omeluum have sexes or genders, as the species reproduces asexually.
The Dame MIGHT be exaggerating. In 5E, Aasimar are a PC race notable for being the equal opposites of Tieflings, and having radiant and necrotic resistance.
Two resists? Little busted.
Lore in most games I've played with aasimar in them, they're a rare product of humans, and the insinuation is that a celestial or God touched the child somehow, in an allusion to the Immaculate Conception.
I haven't looked at 5e, but hell, Pathfinder 1e has at least half a dozen types of tiefling and aasimar, for each type of celestial or abyssal that made it.
Regardless, if her stat block isnt "correct", it's on purpose.
Not as busted as it looks. Radiant resistance doesn't protect you from much except a couple cleric spells and opposing Paladin Smites. Necrotic resistance is doing most of the heavy lifting.
Also, as the equal opposites of Tieflings, Aasimar have frequently been Human mates with Celestial->Half Celestial mates with human->Aasimar, Aasimar remains in the bloodline for several generations, not clearly defined.
Can you elaborate a bit more on Halsin and Astarion being star companions? I don't quite get it. In my play throughs they weren't used much, saw little development and had minor endings.
Originally Posted by fylimar
I honestly don't see Astarion and Halsin as star companions too. I would like an explanation too, if that's ok.
I meant it in the sense of they were the stars of the companions - featured most in publicity and fan worship rather than in game, story-wise. Pre-release Astarion was probably the most talked about companion yet now he is hardly mentioned. Halsin was talked about less (will he be the missing origin character and all that) but now he only features on the forum because his Act 1 and Act 2 quests bork.
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In the good old days aasimar used to be considered a level higher for XP needed to level up due to the racial bonus they got. The +2 CHA +2 STR (?) and the rest. They were the paladin race par excellence. Tieflings were +2 DEX and +2 INT for your rogue.
I honestly don't see Astarion and Halsin as star companions too. I would like an explanation too, if that's ok.
I meant it in the sense of they were the stars of the companions - featured most in publicity and fan worship rather than in game, story-wise. Pre-release Astarion was probably the most talked about companion yet now he is hardly mentioned. Halsin was talked about less (will he be the missing origin character and all that) but now he only features on the forum because his Act 1 and Act 2 quests bork.
Ah, ok, I understand, what you mean. I do agree about Astarion, I mean, he was made to draw in the not so typical DnD crowd, so he was featured widely. I don't really agree about Halsin - apart from the bear memes everywhere, I don't see him often featured outside of talks in this or other BG3 related forums/reddits. And I'm pretty sure, most people remember 'the game has bear sex', but not, who the bear is. You often have to explain, that the 'bear' is actually an elven man.
Last edited by fylimar; 06/09/2307:26 PM.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
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