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I keep going between the two, haven't made it past act 1 because I can't decide.

I dont want two games on the go at once. For Ranger it would be a Hunter, focusing on Archery and special arrows.
Warlock would be Fiend, pact of tome focusing on spells and Eldritch Blast.

Character would be a Drow.

I also think I'm allergic to multiclassing.... I've never done it in any game I've played. Don't like the thought of giving up higher level feats for low level feats from another class.... what benefits would I get from multiclassing, I've read about sorlocks....

Any advice on what to do?

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Ranger

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None of the both is a bad choice.

I would prefer Warlock, Pact of the Chain. I like the little flying devil minion mainly for scouting (can get invisible) and to reduce the threat from ranged enemies.

In my opinion Warlocks don't get that much from higher levels, so multiclassing with Sorcerer is a good option. You get more spell slots for utilities where lvl1 slots are enough, mainly Hex. Hunger of Hadar, a lvl 3 Warlock spell, is in my opinion the best combined area denial and damage effect in the game, only Sleet Storm is better in shutting enemies down, without having damage however. I missed Hunger of Hadar the most after I ended my Sorlock phase and went Sorcerer/Cleric.


When you go Ranger, you should rethink the choice of the Hunter subclass, in my opinion by far the weakest option. Ranger is capable of many things and can be fun, in combat and during the dialogues etc., but nothing is great. As archer a Fighter (or Fighter/Rogue) is a lot better (f.e. because Ranger cannot increase hit chances and does not generate comparable damage; Hunters Mark later loses, and you get the ability from Grym's helmet anyway), as melee he stinks against any other of the martial classes. In theory going twohanded heavy armor Beastmaster with GWM and the hog (an animal Barbarian), as means to make enemies prone (so you have always advantage), sounds good, in practice it sucks (f.e. because the hog has 0 initiative and never goes when needed). As Beastmaster you have at least a variety of options with your animals, but the animal companions aren't that good in the later game.

Gloomstalker may be the best Ranger subclass, if you want to go stealthy and maybe combine with Rogue or Fighter. I did not like the gameplay when I tried, but that's personal taste.

An argument for Ranger might be that no companion has this class (except Minsc whom you meet only in Act 3), so you can play Warlock anyway if you have Wyll in the group. If you are reluctant to change classes of companions, of course.

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Thats obviously a matter of preference ?

I dont like either class much so I dont have much input to offer for these choices. But from this forum and other places it is obvious that all classes, including Ranger and Warlock, have their fans.

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Originally Posted by WitchThorn
what benefits would I get from multiclassing
besides the armour and spells you mean?

anyway Warlock is the stronger class because it uses charisma to do everything; fight melee, range attacks and spells which means it also makes a great party face and better prices

a drow has hand crossbow [one in each hand] which means they can do a range attack as a bonus action and that means you can toss a bottle of water on the ground for free, shoot it as a bonus action to make a target wet then hit that target with ice or lightning magic all in the same turn

on the other hand a Ranger is more basic to learn with arrows and a pet he has limited options and that [simpler] playstyle works for some people


Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed.
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IMO Ranger is the weakest, worst-designed class in the mid-late game. Your spell list isn't very good, and otherwise you're just a nerfed Fighter. If you just want to be an archer, I would recommend playing Fighter. If you really want to be a Ranger for RP reasons or whatever, I'd still recommend multi-classing a few levels into Fighter.

Warlock is my personal favorite class. You're not the best caster but Eldritch Blast builds can be very strong and you have a lot flexibility to choose the tools you want.


Multi-classing serves two purposes:

1. Several classes (including Ranger) don't actually get much in the way of useful class features after level 8 or so, so dipping into another class lets you pile on more useful stuff. For example, a single level in Fighter gives you proficiency in all armour and weapons plus a Fighting Style, a second Fighter level gives you Action Surge, and the third Fighter level gives you a subclass. All of these are potentially very strong with the right build.

2. Some class combos let you do pretty gamebreaking things. For example, pure Paladins never get spell slots above 3rd level, but if you multiclass with Bard or Sorceror you get more and better spell slots so you can Smite like crazy.

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Go with the Ranger. You can get Wyll as a companion to add a Fiend Warlock to your party. There are no characters who start as a Ranger.


"He that can smile at death, as we know him. Who can flourish in the midst of diseases that kill off whole peoples. Oh! If such a one was to come from God, and not the Devil, what a force for good might he not be in this old world of ours."
-Bram Stoker, Dracula
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Don’t listen to the people who are telling you to not play either of these. Both are really fun in my opinion.

I love Ranger as the MC as a skill monkey plus martial class. It’s easy to get 8 or 9 starting skills as a Ranger. These are mostly in dexterity and wisdom which are both useful. Use your Ranger in place of a separate Rogue. Perception is a great skill to have and you will have proficiency in it. I also like Insight for a number of dialogue checks. For party buff, ritual casting of Longstrider on the whole party is invaluable. For exploring, ritual casting of Enhanced Leap makes otherwise challenging places to reach easy. In combat, any martial class with 2 attacks at Level 5 is going to be great. Definitely take Archery and Sharpshooter and become a ranged sniper. It is so fun to use the terrain to get bonuses to archery to-hit which counters some of the negative to hit from Sharpshooter. People say that Battlemaster Fighter is better because of the Maneuvers. What they don’t tell you is that you can’t use those maneuvers with magic/special arrows. That’s right, the fighter is shooting regular arrows. Your Ranger is laughing at them as you gladly use all of the magic arrows, thank you very much. You can even teleport around the battlefield and heal your party members using special arrows.

Personally, I really like the Gloomstalker Ranger. You will always go first in battle and get an extra attack on the first turn. This just about cancels out the Fighter Action Surge as an advantage. At 5th level you get your own Misty Step. At 7th level you gain proficiency in Wisdom and Intelligence saving throws.At 9th level you gain the spell Fear. At 11th level you gain a 3rd attack if you happen to miss on one of the other 2. These are all really great. People will tell you that being the party face with Charisma is great, and it is, but being the party face with Wisdom checks is also a really cool alternative playthrough that can open different paths. People will also tell you to multiclass into Rogue, which also is great, but the single class Ranger will pick up a bunch of resistances and even more skills. Go for it.

I never thought that I would like Warlock. I just didn’t get it. But on my current play through, I’m playing Origin Wyll as a pure Blade Warlock for role playing reasons and I’ve learned to really love it. I thought the limitation of 2 spell slots would be a deal breaker, but I find that I don’t use more than 2 leveled spells per combat. I usually take a short rest after a big combat anyway and the spell slots reset. Also, there’s a ton of scrolls if you really need more spells. Being a Charisma face IS good. Fewer skills overall, though. Blade Warlock is also really good at both ranged (Eldritch Blast) and melee with Pact Weapon. Also some good unique Warlock dialogue options. Pure Fiend Warlocks get good offensive spells at higher levels without needing to multiclass. If you are just going to blast fireball, no need to multiclass to do that. I’m surprised that I’ve grown to really enjoy a pure Blade Warlock.

I have to mention that the best combination of these two for skills, charisma, ranged, and melee in my opinion is a pure Swords Bard. It misses out on the really good Wisdom checks of the Ranger, but gets Expertise to boost skills.

Whatever you pick, go for it! Have fun!

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The Fighter can use magical arrows the same way the Ranger does. So a Fighter would not really understand a laughing Ranger. He, as Battlemaster, just can add some other goodies to the game with some maneuvers, depending on the situation. It's not always the best to use magical arrows. He can also use Precision Shot with the magical arrows.

The additional Gloomstalker extra attack on the first turn is not as good as Action Surge. Firstly it is on the first turn, and sometimes you don't want extra attacks on the first turn, but later. Secondly Action Surge offers more than one additional attack. What makes Dread Ambusher a good feature is the + 3 to initiative. It is important to always go first especially in Honour mode.

It is new to me that the Ranger (or any other martial class except Fighter) does get a 3rd attack at lvl 11. If that's the case, then a good deal of Fighter superiority were gone.

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Fighter 3rd attack at Level 11 is REALLY good. No question. My first playthrough with Lae’zel as Battle Master caught me off guard at Level 11 because I wasn’t paying close attention to her after choosing everyone else’s spells, etc. - wait, what!?! She gets another attack? Awesome! It felt like a real power boost.

Rangers also get a boost to attacks at Level 11:

Gloomstalker - Stalker’ Flurry - Once on each of your turns, when you miss with a weapon attack, you can make another one for free.
Hunter - Volley or Whirlwind - an AoE attack that strikes a bunch of foes. I’ve heard that Volley is basically shooting everyone in the area of a Fireball.
Beast Master - Bestial Fury - your Companions now get Extra Attack

It can be argued that none of these are quite as good as a Fighter 3rd attack, but they are close enough for me since I was able to enjoy the extra skills and mobility of the Ranger for the previous 10 levels.

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Going Ranger level 5 and Pact of the Blade Warlock level 7 will give you the best of both worlds. You will have 3 attacks (by level 10 if you are 5/5 levels in each class) and both Eldritch Blast and melee attacks will benefit from your high Charisma. If you went with Gloom Stalker for your Ranger subclass, you can get 4 attacks in the first round of combat! Dialogue options will also benefit from High Charisma if this is your main character.


"He that can smile at death, as we know him. Who can flourish in the midst of diseases that kill off whole peoples. Oh! If such a one was to come from God, and not the Devil, what a force for good might he not be in this old world of ours."
-Bram Stoker, Dracula
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Yay forum is working ... thats rare these days.

AFAIK Warlock giving a third attack with multiclassing is simply a bug. Only Fighter is supposed to get more than a second regular attack.

I think multiclassing is grossly overrated. The classes are pretty well designed and you miss out on the really great features you get at higher levels. The various gimmicks other classes can give you dont really compensate for that and they also dont synergize too well either.

This is not like, for example, the original Knights of the Old Republic, from pre-EA Bioware. Where starting as a Scoundrel and going Jedi Guardian gave you the huge combo of Sneak Attacks and Power Jump (which triggered Sneak Attacks). Amazing synergy. I know of nothing compareable in D&D5.


Originally Posted by smberg
Fighter 3rd attack at Level 11 is REALLY good. No question. My first playthrough with Lae’zel as Battle Master caught me off guard at Level 11 [...]

Hehe.

And wait until you hit level 17 !

Oh, wait ... nevermind.

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I managed 16 attacks with Lae'zel in one round on my first play through!

3 attacks per action at level 12...

Standard action (3 attacks)
Haste (3 attacks)
Bloodlust (3 attacks)
Action Surge (3 attacks)
Item which gives additional action surge in exchange for damage...don't remember the name (3 attacks)
Great Weapon Master Feat (+1 attack)

This made the Shar Cloister fight a piece of cake.


"He that can smile at death, as we know him. Who can flourish in the midst of diseases that kill off whole peoples. Oh! If such a one was to come from God, and not the Devil, what a force for good might he not be in this old world of ours."
-Bram Stoker, Dracula
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I said regular attack.

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Ranger gets Longstrider. Therefore Ranger is far better than Warlock could ever hope to be. In fact most Warlocks are probably just failed, clumsy Rangers.

Warlocks are what I give to new players because it requires the least of them. You don't need to understand tactics, you don't need to even understand the game mechanics, or be sober, or even have most of your mental faculties functioning to play Warlock. Just EB things.

Really ranger is an actual class with tactical options and the ability to do decent damage. Warlock is what Noober ends up as because anything else requires actual work.


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That sounds a bit exaggerated and non-sensical to me. The increase of 3 m range hardly is a game changer. Warlocks get Flight in contrast and are the only caster class who could really use that for a tactical hit and run/fly play.

In adidition, no class in this game needs genies to get along. With multiclassing you can get the Warlock possibly easier to big damage. As single class I would decide from fashion which to take.

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You don't necessarily have to choose one or the other.

The thing to keep in mind about multiclassing is that it's not really about what you miss out on at higher levels, but more about what the build you want gains from hitting certain levels in a respective class. In general, most multiclass setups will end up being stronger if they are planned out accordingly.

Since you are asking about Warlock vs. Ranger, you obviously like both. So why not do both?

As an example, here's a build I just beat Honour Mode with:

Raven Queen Warlock Ranger

This build is primarily a stealth archer but uses
Band of the Mystic Scoundrel
late game for powerful Warlock crowd control effects. Super fun build to play, and viable on the highest difficulties.

It's also a Warlock build that (gasp) does not use Eldritch Blast, because your bow attacks are more powerful. Don't be afraid to get creative.

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Originally Posted by geala
That sounds a bit exaggerated and non-sensical to me. The increase of 3 m range hardly is a game changer. Warlocks get Flight in contrast and are the only caster class who could really use that for a tactical hit and run/fly play.

3m/10 feet for your entire party and all summons at no cost to you in spell slots. It's huge.

Originally Posted by geala
In adidition, no class in this game needs genies to get along. With multiclassing you can get the Warlock possibly easier to big damage. As single class I would decide from fashion which to take.

What?


Blackheifer
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In most fights it is not that important. Beam and flight abilities often have more of an impact. And as a party consists of 4, and some other not uncommon classes can have the spell too, I would not decide the choice of the class because of Longstrider.

I don't exactly know what you do mean with "What?", but the Charisma based classes offer good multiclassing abilities and the Warlock is well suited for some high damage builds, like crit builds.

Btw, as Honour mode is the only mode which counts for difficulty discussions, the Warlock has a dramatic advantage over the Ranger from Larian's idea of a toned down Haste.

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Originally Posted by geala
In most fights it is not that important. Beam and flight abilities often have more of an impact. And as a party consists of 4, and some other not uncommon classes can have the spell too, I would not decide the choice of the class because of Longstrider.

Initiative and movement are king in a tactical game. It doesn't matter as long as you have someone who can provide it who isn't a warlock, since Warlocks not only do mid damage but don't provide buffs to the group anyway and because of that I would never choose a Lock over a Wizard. Again, it's a great class for amateur and new players since it requires nothing from them in terms of knowledge or skill to play.

We just recently finished a multiplayer honor origins run where one person selected Wyll, who went through multiple re-specs through different players (the rule is you have to retain at least your origin class as base class but you can multi class) - Wyll in all permutations did the least damage, had the least affect on combat, and spent the most time dead. Astarion ended up multi classing into Ranger and provided Longstrider and did a ton more damage overall, at range, while also providing a lot more tactical usability and being a solid rogue.

The other two classes were La'zel who went straight fighter and proceeded to murder everything in melee, and Shadowheart as a Tempest Cleric who also murdered everything.

In every sense the week spot was always Wyll who was just not able to provide any solid AOE or group buffs until one of us just multi classed him into a Sorlock (2 Lock/10 Sorcerer) and then he was at least decent.

Granted, everyone in the run (except the person who selected Wyll) was at 2k+ hours in game so it was an experienced group.

Originally Posted by geala
I don't exactly know what you do mean with "What?",

What does this sentence mean - "In adidition, no class in this game needs genies to get along." genies?


Blackheifer
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