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Yeah, Karlach can keep her spiky tail to herself. Sheesh, when I take a step back and look at the romance options, all I see now are a bunch of barbed tails, fangs, bat wings, bloody eyes, tentacles, scaly skin, pointy horns, creepy eye makeup, bear claws, lizard tongues, and a terrible swimmer. No esta bien.

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Hi folks, let’s stay on topic and keep this thread for chat about the Gayming awards.

If anyone wants to talk about romance/sex in BG3 (again) then let’s resurrect one of the threads about that or start a new one, rather than derail this.


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I apologise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or invalidate anyone in the LGBTQIA+ community.


It’s because of Shadowhearts banter with Halsin and lack of real interest in the player combined with the lustful looks and I’ve dreamed about having sex with Halsin multiple times.

comes across to me that she was intend to be straight but they made all the companions player sexual.

The only character I know for certain that was written to have sexual identity and is a camp follower / final battle playable companion is Dame.

I’m not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I really shouldn’t say anything about the awards.

P.S

My limited understanding of gayming awards combined with me not knowing what the character need to meet to get the award is why I’m so confused as to why Shadowheart was awarded the gayest character and the fact I never heard of Gayming awards until TT.

Last edited by Bobby678; 12/07/24 12:27 AM.
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Originally Posted by Bobby678
I apologise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or invalidate anyone in the LGBTQIA+ community.


It’s because of Shadowhearts banter with Halsin and lack of real interest in the player combined with the lustful looks and I’ve dreamed about having sex with Halsin multiple times.

comes across to me that she was intend to be straight but they made all the companions player sexual.

The only character I know for certain that was written to have sexual identity and is a camp follower / final battle playable companion is Dame.

I’m not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I really shouldn’t say anything about the awards.

I'm bi, and I personally wasn't offended by any comments seen here, so don't sweat it smile
That being said, Shadowheart wanting to sleep with Halsin doesn't necessarily make her straight. I've already discussed that I find her to be playersexual rather than bisexual, but I don't think Halsin is proof she couldn't be bisexual.

I guess we could also argue Raphael could've beeen nominated for the award, since he's a prominent character that sleeps with the same sex regardless of player's actions, that being a clone of himself :P Would've been a very fun if unlikely nomination.

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Originally Posted by Bobby678
I apologise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or invalidate anyone in the LGBTQIA+ community.


It’s because of Shadowhearts banter with Halsin and lack of real interest in the player combined with the lustful looks and I’ve dreamed about having sex with Halsin multiple times.

comes across to me that she was intend to be straight but they made all the companions player sexual.

The only character I know for certain that was written to have sexual identity and is a camp follower / final battle playable companion is Dame.

I’m not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I really shouldn’t say anything about the awards.

As has been already established the romanceable companions are all playersexual, this has also been confirmed by Larian that it was their decision and intention from early in the development. So none of the romanceable companions are written as straight, gay or lesbian, they are all pansexual so that it fits the playersexual mechanics (good or bad, lazy, less interesting, better or worse for inclusion are all valid opinions on this mechanic and a topic for another discussion, it is what it is).

A character that is pansexual is obviously also eligible for this award since they fall within the LGBTQ umbrella. Since it's awarded by popular vote, a character that the player can have a developed and intimate story with themselves is going to have a huge advantage. I think any of the romancable companions in Baldur's Gate 3 would have beaten any of the NPC's in a popular vote, the Baldur's Gate fanbase is a community that has latched on to the companions very strongly. Opinions on Whether you think this is a bad or good approach to selecting the winner will be divided and can be argued forever and after 25 years the fanbase of for example the Eurovision Song Contest are still strongly divided on this issue.

I personally think the writers, actors and directors went beyond simply writing a romance and then slapping a playersexual mechanic on it. I think they put a lot of effort into ensuring that the dialogue, scenes and characterisation could be enjoyed from many different player perspectives. I think a lot of players, myself included, subconciously make our own headcanons about the companion's sexualities, but I am not surprised when I learn that a companion that I romanced as a straight Tav, someone else romanced and enjoyed as a gay Tav.

Regarding the scene where Shadowheart expresses interest in Halsin there seems to be a willfully bad faith interpretation of this scene that it's all about her sexual attraction to Halsin. Completely disregarding that for this to even trigger, Shadowheart and the player have first, through the active choice of the player, confirmed that they are interested in getting intimate with two drow twins, a male and a female. And in that scene Shadowheart clearly expresses enjoing the intimacy and attention of both the male and female drow, as well as wanting the player to join them. If anything this confirms that Shadowheart is queer/pan and not straight. No matter what you think of this scene (also a topic for another discussion) there is no way to have this interaction without having Shadowheart clearly express interest in and enjoyment with at least one female character as well.

Last edited by papercut_ninja; 12/07/24 05:15 AM.
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Originally Posted by papercut_ninja
Originally Posted by Bobby678
I apologise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or invalidate anyone in the LGBTQIA+ community.


It’s because of Shadowhearts banter with Halsin and lack of real interest in the player combined with the lustful looks and I’ve dreamed about having sex with Halsin multiple times.

comes across to me that she was intend to be straight but they made all the companions player sexual.

The only character I know for certain that was written to have sexual identity and is a camp follower / final battle playable companion is Dame.

I’m not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I really shouldn’t say anything about the awards.

As has been already established the romanceable companions are all playersexual, this has also been confirmed by Larian that it was their decision and intention from early in the development. So none of the romanceable companions are written as straight, gay or lesbian, they are all pansexual so that it fits the playersexual mechanics (good or bad, lazy, less interesting, better or worse for inclusion are all valid opinions on this mechanic and a topic for another discussion, it is what it is).

A character that is pansexual is obviously also eligible for this award since they fall within the LGBTQ umbrella. Since it's awarded by popular vote, a character that the player can have a developed and intimate story with themselves is going to have a huge advantage. I think any of the romancable companions in Baldur's Gate 3 would have beaten any of the NPC's in a popular vote, the Baldur's Gate fanbase is a community that has latched on to the companions very strongly. Opinions on Whether you think this is a bad or good approach to selecting the winner will be divided and can be argued forever and after 25 years the fanbase of for example the Eurovision Song Contest are still strongly divided on this issue.

I personally think the writers, actors and directors went beyond simply writing a romance and then slapping a playersexual mechanic on it. I think they put a lot of effort into ensuring that the dialogue, scenes and characterisation could be enjoyed from many different player perspectives. I think a lot of players, myself included, subconciously make our own headcanons about the companion's sexualities, but I am not surprised when I learn that a companion that I romanced as a straight Tav, someone else romanced and enjoyed as a gay Tav.

Regarding the scene where Shadowheart expresses interest in Halsin there seems to be a willfully bad faith interpretation of this scene that it's all about her sexual attraction to Halsin. Completely disregarding that for this to even trigger, Shadowheart and the player have first, through the active choice of the player, confirmed that they are interested in getting intimate with two drow twins, a male and a female. And in that scene Shadowheart clearly expresses enjoing the intimacy and attention of both the male and female drow, as well as wanting the player to join them. If anything this confirms that Shadowheart is queer/pan and not straight. No matter what you think of this scene (also a topic for another discussion) there is no way to have this interaction without having Shadowheart clearly express interest in and enjoyment with at least one female character as well.


That makes sense that shadowheart would win given she is “god favourite princess” and she is one of the most popular characters.

I don’t really play player sexual games not that I purposely avoid them.

so it’s an adjustment period to see all characters as part of the alphabet community.

Regarding the Halsin part that is a completely different discussion as that would have nothing to do with the awards.

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Originally Posted by jinetemoranco
Originally Posted by Bobby678
I apologise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or invalidate anyone in the LGBTQIA+ community.


It’s because of Shadowhearts banter with Halsin and lack of real interest in the player combined with the lustful looks and I’ve dreamed about having sex with Halsin multiple times.

comes across to me that she was intend to be straight but they made all the companions player sexual.

The only character I know for certain that was written to have sexual identity and is a camp follower / final battle playable companion is Dame.

I’m not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I really shouldn’t say anything about the awards.

I'm bi, and I personally wasn't offended by any comments seen here, so don't sweat it smile
That being said, Shadowheart wanting to sleep with Halsin doesn't necessarily make her straight. I've already discussed that I find her to be playersexual rather than bisexual, but I don't think Halsin is proof she couldn't be bisexual.

I guess we could also argue Raphael could've beeen nominated for the award, since he's a prominent character that sleeps with the same sex regardless of player's actions, that being a clone of himself :P Would've been a very fun if unlikely nomination.


That would have been really funny if Raphael was a candidate.

In all my play thrus when I’ve had shadowheart in my party she never talked about Karlach carrying her to safety.

The only time she really showed any interest that wasn’t 100% player input was with Halsin.

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Larian also won an award for best community support despite keeping the community in the dark and informing Mac players on the day of the supposed release that the Mac version will be delayed for a undefined time with a twitter post made on a employees personal account.

Which is why all those popular vote awards mean nothing.
People see Shadowheart, people vote for Shadowheart.

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Originally Posted by Ixal
Larian also won an award for best community support despite keeping the community in the dark and informing Mac players on the day of the supposed release that the Mac version will be delayed for a undefined time with a twitter post made on a employees personal account.

Which is why all those popular vote awards mean nothing.
People see Shadowheart, people vote for Shadowheart.

The Game Awards where they won best community support are not selected by popular vote though (except for the Player's Choice Award), so not the best example.

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Originally Posted by Bobby678
Originally Posted by jinetemoranco
Originally Posted by Bobby678
I apologise I didn’t mean to offend anyone or invalidate anyone in the LGBTQIA+ community.


It’s because of Shadowhearts banter with Halsin and lack of real interest in the player combined with the lustful looks and I’ve dreamed about having sex with Halsin multiple times.

comes across to me that she was intend to be straight but they made all the companions player sexual.

The only character I know for certain that was written to have sexual identity and is a camp follower / final battle playable companion is Dame.

I’m not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I really shouldn’t say anything about the awards.

I'm bi, and I personally wasn't offended by any comments seen here, so don't sweat it smile
That being said, Shadowheart wanting to sleep with Halsin doesn't necessarily make her straight. I've already discussed that I find her to be playersexual rather than bisexual, but I don't think Halsin is proof she couldn't be bisexual.

I guess we could also argue Raphael could've beeen nominated for the award, since he's a prominent character that sleeps with the same sex regardless of player's actions, that being a clone of himself :P Would've been a very fun if unlikely nomination.


That would have been really funny if Raphael was a candidate.

In all my play thrus when I’ve had shadowheart in my party she never talked about Karlach carrying her to safety.

The only time she really showed any interest that wasn’t 100% player input was with Halsin.


I happen to be just at that spot in my current playthrough. So here you are, it occurs when you meet Karlach for the first time, but the game will pick only one companion for a statement of "approval". Lae'zel might be chosen instead of Shadowheart, and she'll say something about a firey warrior.

Before you click below, my current PT has an NSFW mod to make everyone look more like a Conan/Frank Frazetta persona, and since I had to restart from a quicksave in a cutscene I couldn' t change Shaddy back to her "normal" attire. (But since we're in an LGBTQ+ related thread I imagine everyone is mature enough.)

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Originally Posted by ldo58
since we're in an LGBTQ+ related thread I imagine everyone is mature enough.

The fact that this is a thread discussing the Gayming awards is absolutely no reason for sharing unnecessarily sexualised images, even in spoiler tags.

Let’s not see that again.


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Shadowheart is the one that that says “there’s a thought I don’t mind sharing if you don’t”

That’s is when Halsin invites himself to the party and shadowheart goes full daddy Halsin mode.

They exchange a lustful look then try and pressure the player into a 5 some with the Halsin and Shadowheart disapprove if you reject him for a third time.

Also the fact the banter plays out even if you don’t talk to halsin until act3 or out right reject Halsin is the reason why I interpreted that as her being written to be straight but was later changed to be player sexual.

all banter between Halsin and Shadowheart is flirty regardless of the path you choose with shadowheart. DJ shadowheart banter is obviously thirsty for Halsin.


That is why I didn’t understand how she could be the winner of the gayest character as she doesn’t really show any interest in any female characters outside a female PC character but she shows a lot of interest in a Male character and admits she’s be fantasising about having sex with him.

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I am not out to defend this scene or the writing of Halsin as I am not a fan of either of these inclusions in the game, but you are factually wrong. There is a prompt that you need to confirm after she says she doesn't mind sharing:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

(Unless you have already learned about their proposal earlier at which point you can jump straight to: "I would like to hire both of you, and I hope my partner will join us as well", which of course entirely removes Shadowheart's agency in being the one to bring it up.)

There is nothing involving Halsin unless you click the dialogue option "Great, let's do it."

There is no need to misrepresent the actual events and interaction to make it seem even worse, as has been proven with the lengthy threads about this topic, people are upset about it enough as it is.

And to return to the topic of this thread regarding characters that are LGBTQ again, there is a female drow right there that Shadowheart shows interest in first (together with her male brother), hence she is at the very least queer.

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Oh man... that you have to come here with these partially false claims and exaggerations...

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First, please no personal attacks, and second it does feel as though we’re wandering somewhat off topic in this thread, as well as risking treading on sensitive topics. Please keep things both relevant and considerate.

And while I’m here, I’ll just mention that I was happy to see Dame Aylin acknowledged in these awards. I think Shadowheart justly gets appreciation, and she obviously resonated with the voters for this award, but Aylin is a character who has stuck with me out of proportion to the size of the role. She has the bombastic demeanour and slightly cringeworthy righteousness that is played for laughs in the tradition of the first BG games (particularly Ajantis in the first game), and her embarrassing honesty and TMI about her relationship with Isobel feels completely in character and always gets a chuckle from me. But I think Helen Keeley does a fantastic job at injecting a note of fragility into Aylin’s front of confidence, and for me the character also managed to capture the danger of someone who is sure they’re right, or is not able to accept any weakness from themself, without it feeling like I was being hit in the face with it. As a portrait of a paladin character that to me feels faithful to the D&D stereotype while still hinting at the complex individual under the surface, Aylin would have got my vote.


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The vote is not for the "gayest" character. It's actually not about the character at all. As I've criticized prior to this, that type of vote ALWAYS favours the most popular character in a given community, usually resulting in the most objectively deserving choices being passed right over.

However, even if someone does not agree with that criticism, it remains a vote for the most cherished character by the LGBT community around the game. It is not a vote for the "gayest" character. Whether SH is gay, straight, bisexual or playersexual, it doesn't matter. Being theoretically playersexual is enough to qualify for voting, even if you see her as some sort of specific sexuality personally. Though, let me tell you, even if she wasn't playersexual, she'd likely have been a voting option if there's enough fan content in demand. This is a sort of community reward, not an intellectually rigorous one.

Headcanons is all people have had for a long time with LGBT characters being a taboo. This gave rise to this sort of treatment: anyone is bisexual in shipping culture until proven otherwise. I'm aware some people do not like this, but it is what it is. Compared to this, her being mechanically playersexual transcends the bare minimum to qualify by leaps and bounds. The people behind this award are not interested whether she "appears" gay, straight or bisexual.

I too wish a more intellectually focused award existed alongside this, but the existence of a fandom award in itself is not necessarily bad. You have to accept it for what it is: SH is the most popular character in fandom, as voted by people of whom many are LGBT. She's neither the best "portrayal" nor necessarily the best written. She's just meant the most to the highest amount of people in the community.

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Originally Posted by The Red Queen
First, please no personal attacks, and second it does feel as though we’re wandering somewhat off topic in this thread, as well as risking treading on sensitive topics. Please keep things both relevant and considerate.

And while I’m here, I’ll just mention that I was happy to see Dame Aylin acknowledged in these awards. I think Shadowheart justly gets appreciation, and she obviously resonated with the voters for this award, but Aylin is a character who has stuck with me out of proportion to the size of the role. She has the bombastic demeanour and slightly cringeworthy righteousness that is played for laughs in the tradition of the first BG games (particularly Ajantis in the first game), and her embarrassing honesty and TMI about her relationship with Isobel feels completely in character and always gets a chuckle from me. But I think Helen Keeley does a fantastic job at injecting a note of fragility into Aylin’s front of confidence, and for me the character also managed to capture the danger of someone who is sure they’re right, or is not able to accept any weakness from themself, without it feeling like I was being hit in the face with it. As a portrait of a paladin character that to me feels faithful to the D&D stereotype while still hinting at the complex individual under the surface, Aylin would have got my vote.

It's funny, that you mentioned Ajantis, since I always thought, that Aylin and Ajantis have a lot in common, especially being a bit over the top, but pretty likeable. And yes, the voice actor is really great.


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Originally Posted by Silver/
The vote is not for the "gayest" character. It's actually not about the character at all. As I've criticized prior to this, that type of vote ALWAYS favours the most popular character in a given community, usually resulting in the most objectively deserving choices being passed right over.

However, even if someone does not agree with that criticism, it remains a vote for the most cherished character by the LGBT community around the game. It is not a vote for the "gayest" character. Whether SH is gay, straight, bisexual or playersexual, it doesn't matter. Being theoretically playersexual is enough to qualify for voting, even if you see her as some sort of specific sexuality personally. Though, let me tell you, even if she wasn't playersexual, she'd likely have been a voting option if there's enough fan content in demand. This is a sort of community reward, not an intellectually rigorous one.

Headcanons is all people have had for a long time with LGBT characters being a taboo. This gave rise to this sort of treatment: anyone is bisexual in shipping culture until proven otherwise. I'm aware some people do not like this, but it is what it is. Compared to this, her being mechanically playersexual transcends the bare minimum to qualify by leaps and bounds. The people behind this award are not interested whether she "appears" gay, straight or bisexual.

I too wish a more intellectually focused award existed alongside this, but the existence of a fandom award in itself is not necessarily bad. You have to accept it for what it is: SH is the most popular character in fandom, as voted by people of whom many are LGBT. She's neither the best "portrayal" nor necessarily the best written. She's just meant the most to the highest amount of people in the community.

Very much agree with this. It is an award for a character that has been embraced by the LGBTQ community.

I've seen a compilation of data someone put together with fanfiction shippings and it shows an overwhelming popularity for Shadowheart as lesbian or bi. Shadowheart and Lae'zel is the most popular by far with more than twice as many shippings as Shadowheart and Karlach that comes in at second, with Shadowheart and Female Tav being the third most popular. Even though Astarion is the golden boy of fanfiction with exponentially more fanfiction than any other character and ranks as the number one shipping with almost every other character, Astarion only comes in as the fourth most popular shipping with Shadowheart.

So as far as the LGBTQ community goes, they clearly view her as one of theirs.

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Originally Posted by papercut_ninja
I've seen a compilation of data someone put together with fanfiction shippings and it shows an overwhelming popularity for Shadowheart as lesbian or bi. Shadowheart and Lae'zel is the most popular by far with more than twice as many shippings as Shadowheart and Karlach that comes in at second, with Shadowheart and Female Tav being the third most popular.

That's a very true point. I think in terms of her being romanced by players in-game, it's probably going to be mostly by straight men since that's going to be the majority target audience for this game (that is not to say that in terms of fanbase bg3 has clearly been very well received and loved by the LGBT community) but in terms of an active fanbase, the lesbians are the majority loving her instead.

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