Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Isn't hast spell to powerfull for a paladin ?

What I mean is their is barely no reason to not always use it as your concentration spell. Only exeption would be when you know the fight will last only 3-4 round so you can use speed potions instead.

Their are other paladin spell/skill that I would like to use but nothing come close to the power hast give you. Even without taking war caster, you almost never loose concentration. Well, on tactician at least.

Well Haste isn't a paladin spell for starters, so you would have to dip into some other spellcaster class to get the ability to cast the spell (or use scrolls/items).

With the rule of the dice are always going to be shit at the worst opportunity, Haste is always a gamble in Honour Mode. Speed potions are safer and if you are playing paladin, everything should be smited to death within three turns.

But on tactician where you can reload, Haste doesn't come with the risk of screwing your whole run over so it's a really strong spell.

It's oath of vengeance paladin only, to be specific level 9. This is important insofar that later Paladin levels drop off massively, making multiclass a strong possibility. It might be better to have a sorcerer cast twinned haste than to have a Paladin haste themselves. Darkfire Shortbow still gives a free haste to any sort of paladin and meaningful damage resistances.

Which I gave to my fighter. I also have no wiz/sorc in my team but even if I, it feels like pure caster have better spell to cast then a pally would. I'll try it on my next gameplay.

Outside of Honour Mode, sure. Haste is plenty powerful and is one of the premier spells to spend Concentration on.

In Honour Mode, where the spell works more like it's supposed to, it's a lot more balanced and less important for a Paladin to be concerned with (Especially as you want battles to be over quickly, so using more spell slots on Smites is a consideration).

There are ways to lessen the need to use Haste as a Paladin even on Tactician and below though, such as not using Oath of Vengeance (So Haste isn't available for the Paladin), using Sorcerer or Druid to provide Haste to multiple characters (Via Twinned cast or Armour of the Sporekeeper), or simply relying on alternate means of Haste such as Potions of Speed.

In honor mode Haste has much greater utility for casters than martial classes. Martial classes only get one extra attack on top of the two or three they already have. But for casters it means being able to cast two full spells per turn.

A sorcerer or wizard blasting off two chain lightning (if you have Arcane Battery or other means of getting a second level 6 spell slot) is way more OP than a paladin that gets a third attack. Probably still better in other modes where the paladin gets four attacks with Haste.

They have at higher levels, but they don't necessarily do at lower ones. I specified Sorcerer as that Twinned haste would go on two martials. By the time casters have way better things to do than haste martials, there isn't really any need to cast haste ever unless you're in a considerably bad spot. Once in that bad spot, it's less risky to drink a speed potion as well. I would consider Haste overrated in Act 2 and on because of that, in Honour mode or Honour like modded difficulty.

I generally avoid using speed potions and scrolls in my playthroughs, it breaks the game economy too much if you have at least 3 strong builds. I suppose Haste is good in that it's more balanced, there's risk involved.

I dont get the point of using any concentration spell on a tank.

Your task is literally getting hit so your more fragile party members dont get hit.

And Paladin doesnt even get Constituion Save Proficiency, either. So basically one would want to learn TWO feats to make concentration spells on Paladin somewhat viable: Warcaster and Resilient: Constitution.

Tanks often have good AC meaning they get hit less.

Honestly, it's not particularly difficult to maintain concentration on anyone besides a Barbarian (Due to the obvious nature of Rage preventing concentration).

Even more so when you factor in using CC abilities to give enemies disadvantage on attacks, or simply outright kill them so they can't attack (Which is what Haste can allow you to do) and the various ways to gain bonuses on concentration saves (Items to give advantage on Con checks, items to boost your Con massively etc)

Pal is not a class that tops the AC charts unless you go out of your way for it... but in a game with infinite speed potions, haste has risk and is automatically more balanced. It's also limited to oath of vengeance. Unlike oath of the ancients, it does not have an incredibly valuable aura, and would lose out on multiclassing potential by obtaining haste. Imo vengeance Paladin only peaks when multiclassed.

Any class can obtain a superior variant of the haste spell through chugging speed potions. Unless those become severely limited, the game will always be unbalanced 😴

I found the argument in other places of the internet that Paladin can get his saves (as well as those of close by allies) into the sky simply by reaching level 6 and having high Charisma. Which, well, is true; if you would manage to reach Charisma 18 you have as much bonus to your saves as if you had proficiency in all of them, and double bonus on those saves you actually have proficiency in.

Yep, but you need level 7 for an extra boost to your aura. Ancients grants resistance to spell damage for everyone. Devotion is immunity to charm. Oathbreaker buffs damage to self and nearby friends and undead in melee equal to charisma modifier.

Vengeance only works on yourself, and gives you movement speed after opportunity attacks. Vengeance and devotion have just about the least level 7 benefits. Clustering around an oath of the ancients pal is pretty beneficial, especially since it has area heal anyway. It's very easy to give everyone bless and physical resistances alongside, all at cost of a bonus action. It's a very strong defensive class with some ability to deal single target damage. Still, you'd kill the gameplay by multiclassing ancients and losing level 7. 6 levels in pal is enough for vengeance multiclassing. Haste comes at level 9 and is vengeance exclusive.

It makes sense in a world where haste potions are banned, but if you're using them, it's a big loss compared to ancients' benefits. You'd lose both, say, sword flourishes and party face benefits from multiclassing, as well as Pal's true defensive potential (resistance and save distributor to party).

(Shar's upgraded spear of can make up for the innate lack of decent AoE options for Ancients, but needless to say the method of obtaining it may be a no go. It's an area smite. Vengeance and oathbreaker have that going for them, though it's a very hidden mechanic)

ALL Paladins get "Aura of Protection" at level 6, which gives their Charisma modifier to themselves and allies very close to them (merely 3m radius).

https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Paladin
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Aura_of_Protection

I don't think anyone said they didn't...? You still need level 7 to benefit at maximum from auras, unless you're vengeance or devotion. Vengeance flat out doesn't have an improved aura there while devotion's immunity to charm is so situational it's not really worth picking. That's just how pals are hardwired, they gain their important class benefits at levels 2, 6, 7, and 11. 2: smite, 6: aura, 7: improved aura (minus vengeance), 11: improved smiting.

No we exclusively talked about the charisma bonus on saving throws and that comes at level 6, no matter the Oath or Oath-lessness.