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I beat the game once and haven't played again yet, but it was fun smile I will probably play again someday, but with a different approach based on lessons learned.

It took me probably 275 hours or so... which includes many re-dos of battles because some were difficult for me. Really enjoyed (thanks Larian!)

I'm somewhat of a completionist, and sometimes I wish I wasn't. In the case of BG3, I wish I wasn't, and wish I had set better boundaries for myself. I took so much stuff that I didn't need that ended up sitting in my camp's chest all game it was crazy. Lesson learned.
* In my next playthrough, I'm taking hardly anything. And if I swap out weapons or clothes, don't keep the old ones. I will just quickly toss or sell, since I never once re-used an old item that I decided I didn't want to equip in my party.

I tried to explore every crate, vase, shelf, rack, nook, cranny, and everything else. Tried to do all the dialogues, all the side quests (only missed a couple early on when I was still learning how the game works), and tried to read every book and text I could (the ones where I couldn't get caught) -- well, at least 'open' every book (quickly skim through, sometimes not paying attention) and then save the books/texts to my camp. I don't like reading in games, but do understand they help with immersion and lore.

In the end, I had 811 books/texts/readables in my camp's chest; some duplicates, no doubt. Lesson learned: they did me no good wink Only benefit is that I can read through them at my leisure now. I may do that to an extent at some point to learn more lore. (Even though I bet someone has posted them online, so it was even more of a wasted effort that I did that. Oh well) smile

Nothing wrong with Larian's approach to the stuff. I like that they put junk objects and such all over to help make the world feel more realistic, and let us hold on to anything and everything we wanted. It's on my shoulders to change my ways based on lessons learned if I want. I've learned that I don't want to be a hoarder next time and probably not try to search in every single box/crate, shelf, corpse, and so on. I think I want a more streamlined, go-with-the-flow experience next time

Did you have any lessons learned without being too spoilery? Did you also collect every book or something else that you later regretted spending all that time on?

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Hoarding is too strong in this one :), sadly. But I do try to sell off everything not needed. Also, by now I've learned that I do NOT need over a hundred Potions of Greater Healing smile
For a re-run I suggest some mods - like more and better enemies.

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Lol, let me see:

1. Vases are generally empty. Very sad. frown

2. Efficient healing requires snuggling (sorry Astarion). Make your buddies stand together and throw a potion at their feet, it helps all of them.

3. Let yourself get arrested. BG3 prison break experience is 10/10.

4. Sometimes not being the nicest gives you the better scene. I am a sucker for conflict resolution, so I am very happy BG3 gives you the opportunity on several occasions. Peering into Gale's mind twice and then immediately being remorseful about it, might be my favourite example, but I also dearly love the conversation you can have with neutral approval Shadowheart at the Tiefling party.

Edit: When playing Avatar-Gale for the first time, I also collected all the books, notes and letters. Karlach and Lae'zel carried them around, best girls. ^^ (It made Karlach's epilogue comment all the more funny.)

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Lessons I learned:

1) Searching every container is not worthwhile. All the actual items are in scripted locations and it's EXTREMELY rare for the randomly generated items to ever be noteworthy. (The upside to looting everything is you find out where all the scripted locations are so know in the future which ones to actually bother checking. Especially notable are things like the Smuggler's Ring which is found on a non-descript skeleton)

2) Collecting food items is a waste of time. There's plenty of Supply Packs to be found and easily purchased if necessary. The chance of running out of supplies for resting is basically nil with just packs alone (I suppose if you were cheesing and long resting after each and every encounter for full resources *maybe* you might get low)

3) Gold is easly obtained. Looting absolutely every item to sell and trying to bother with stealing stuff from stores is completely unnecessary as gold is so easily obtained that the actual problem with it, is it eventually weighing your characters down because you can't spend it because you have 10k+ after buying literally every item from every vendor in the game...

4) Most skills are useless. Outside the commonly used skills (Sleight of Hand, Perception, Persuasion and Deception) other skills rarely have any checks at all. Even fewer of those checks actually do anything anyway. So there's not much need to try and maximize skill proficiencies within a party.

5) The "Small openings" that can be found all over the place, do not take you anywhere that cannot be easily accessed by other means. So trying to play especially for them is not necessary. On a side note, if you DO wish to utilize these, Druid's Cat Form can enter them, which is one of the few actual uses of the form (This would be most beneficial to say a Circle of the Land Druid that is primarily using spells rather than Moon/Spore Druid that will be using their Shifting uses for combat)

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Sorry, I just noticed that maybe I shouldn't have made this thread in the "General" discussion area? The area's descriptor says, "NO SPOILERS. Discussion or links to anything BG-related that doesn't fit anywhere else here!" Maybe "Help Tips & Tricks" area is better? If moderators feel the need to move my thread, please feel free.

That said, I appreciate these replies, they are really helpful for me! Informative, but not too spoilery -- at least not for after having played it once

@Buba68 - Yeah, I agree, so easy to hoard. Regarding healing potions, though, I often didn't have enough smile On the other hand, I had a ton of magic scrolls, throwables, potions, arrows, and a bunch of other stuff that were meant for battle that I never used. Not next time!
I will look into those mods! So far I have only tried "Clean Leaving" and "Weightless Gold". For the former, sometimes the chars were a little too gross looking for me in dialogues after battles. And for the latter, I didn't like having to distribute gold across characters or have it unnecessarily burden my main character.

@Anska - Agree. So many empty vases -- wasted efforts to look in. Great idea on potions, I didn't know that or did it very infrequently.

@Taril - Yeah, I'm okay with looking through everything the first playthrough. Satiates the part of me that doesn't want to leave any stone unturned, and to also make sure I had as rich of first time as I could reasonably have. But, for me, I slightly regret all that effort. I totally agree on food. I had 100x more than I needed for one night, literally. Note: One risk with sleeping after every battle is sometimes a quest will go away due to time passage or something. I think I missed a quest or two this way. I agree about gold. That's also why I installed the "Weightless Gold" mod for my next playthrough. Great point about "small openings". At times I played for them, and for the ones I didn't do I thought their existence would be cool to explore in a 2nd playthrough (incentive to play again), but I think you're right. Seems like there is usually another way in. If you play in a stealthy/sneaky way, they're nice sometimes

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From what you've said about being a completionist, this kind of goes along with changes I'd been making over the last few RPGs I've played and more so in BG3. A while ago games often expected you to loot *everything*, but that seems to be less the case now. Maybe after those spoof live action videos of Link from The Legend of Zelda running into someone's house, smashing all their pottery and running away. Partly because BG3 doesn't reward searching everything, but also because it's unrealistic for me as the player character, I just *don't* search everything. You can kind of cheat by holding down some key (alt for me) and it puts labels on containers that have something in them.

Same goes for everything else like books, dialogue and sidequests. First of all, you're supposed to enjoy playing a game, it shouldn't feel like a job that's given you a list of tasks. But secondly, BG3 in particular is designed so that you can't see everything in a single playthrough: for example, you can't kill the goblins and raid the Emerald Grove in the same game. By deliberately leaving some missions undone, you have more stuff to enjoy if you do play it again, but even if you don't you'll still have got loads out of it. The approach I use is I think about how much my character would want to do a mission (or speak to someone, etc.), against the amount of effort it'll take. So if it's on my way, I'm more likely to do it. But there were a few missions, sometimes that I even started, that I later realised I'd need to go a long distance out of my way and that it wouldn't appeal to my character. So, I ignored it. I can do is as someone else.

Biggest lessons I learnt that I can think of are to quicksave often, because if you get a TPK you can easily lose 30-60 minutes of playtime to an autosave; and to go with the flow sometimes if you fail a roll, and see what happens. I think there was another one, but I can't remember it now. I also enjoyed thoroughly roleplaying the party (especially my own characters), with their own personalities, but I understand that's not everyone's cup of tea

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Originally Posted by Trantion
From what you've said about being a completionist, this kind of goes along with changes I'd been making over the last few RPGs I've played and more so in BG3. A while ago games often expected you to loot *everything*, but that seems to be less the case now... Partly because BG3 doesn't reward searching everything, but also because it's unrealistic for me as the player character, I just *don't* search everything. You can kind of cheat by holding down some key (alt for me) and it puts labels on containers that have something in them.
I can somewhat see that (the loot 'everything' being useful in past games). I also don't want to miss anything that might help me in my quest, miss opening up a new quest, miss completing an objective, or miss a keycode or password that I'll need for a secure area, as games have also taught me to worry about. The latter is a main reason why I took, opened, and quickly rifled through the pages of every single book in BG3 that I could, which is a shame. But, hey, I got the "You read 100 books" trophy ;-)

I like your thoughts about just enjoying the game, and not getting caught up trying to do everything in one playthrough where it feels like a job. This was my first Larian game experience, and I will definitely do that in any future game they make... or any similar RPGs. I haven't played too many RPGs, so I will be careful smile And quicksaving... YES! I would have lost so much progress and had to re-do many lengthy battles if I didn't quicksave often.

I'm okay with having junk objects and pointless rooms in games like BG3, and I actually wish more games could/would do it. (I hear some gamers on YouTube groan when there is nothing in a room they explored. "Why is this room even here?? There was nothing of value in it." Which I totally disagree with.) For me, it adds to the immersion to not have everything strategically placed for the player, and not have every item and room be meant for the player. Makes the world fell 'lived in' and realistic... like there is an ecosystem of life in the game that would be there whether or not the player was there. We are put into that world as a player, and it would be there whether or not we were in it.

One game I really enjoy is "Thief 2: The Metal Age." It has always felt immersive to me for those very reasons. It does a nice job of making you feel like you are a participant in that world, imo, instead of the world being hand-crafted for you, the player. I've always liked exploring every part of a mansion and courtyard in Thief 2, looking for loot, shortcuts, objectives, secrets, and the like. I know it's not an RPG, but rather a 'first-person sneaker', but the difference in that game to, say, BG3, Skyrim, Fallout, or Morrowind, is that you immediately know, visually (before you pick up), what are valuable or useful items vs. what are junk objects. And if you try to take junk, it just picks it up and floats it in front of your view and you can only drop or throw it. It doesn't add it to your inventory, which is nice. On the other hand if you pick up jewelry, gold goblets, or other valuable items, it immediately translates into coin/gold in your inventory... and objective-related objects get added to your inventory. Beautiful! Also, any riches gathered in one mission are quickly used when buying weapons and tools for the immediate next mission. It doesn't linger longer than that because your character has to 'pay rent' between missions. I enjoyed that and it feeds my completionist desires well. Thief 2 inspires and rewards me to explore every nook and cranny of every mission without burdening me down. Regarding its books and scrolls, there are many short ones to read to help the lore, but only the ones that might be beneficial to an 'objective' or completing a mission get added to your inventory so you can re-read later, as needed. Awesome!

For Thief 2, because it's an older game, it, obviously, has far fewer 'clutter' objects anyways which helps. That's harder to pull off in a more modern game, or an RPG game like BG3, but I have to believe there is a meet-in-the-middle way that RPGs could do it, so I don't go around collecting every silver platter, apple, spoon, rope, potion, spell, arrow, and painting in case it comes in handy 50 or 100 hours later in the game for a certain boss, or if I run out of money, food, or what have you. Games like BG3, Skyrim, and even the old Morrowind have a ton of objects to pick up... and you often don't know what to keep and what to discard. How much money will you need? Will something be useful in my journey? With Fallout 4, you actually 'need' to gather a ton of that stuff for recycling/scrapping if you want to build forts and such, ugh frown

In BG3, for example, I had each of my characters carry a rope for the entire game because I thought I'd need it at some point. I never needed them. Even read online that they are needed for one spot in the game. I didn't read where that spot was to not spoil it for myself, and somehow never found the spot to my knowledge. But if and when I play BG3 again, I'll again have to carry ropes, unless I look up exactly where they're used.

Side note to finish my Thief talk: If you like slow, patient gaming, sneaking in shadows, avoiding NPC confrontations, and are okay with some retro, I recommend giving Thief 1 and 2 a try. My preference is Thief 2, and you can start there, as they honed their stealth gaming craft there. Thief 1 was part Tomb Raider/Indiana Jones, and part stealth. I prefer the stealth and environments of Thief 2 more, and that was the first of the series I played. And if you play and like Thief 2 you can always go back to Thief 1 like I did. It's very similar because it's made by the same people as Thief 2, but just a little different. Can't explain without spoiling too much. Some people prefer Thief 1 over 2, but if you don't like Thief 1, give Thief 2 a try. I just hate the thought of someone not liking Thief 1 and then not trying Thief 2 as a result.

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(I hear some gamers on YouTube groan when there is nothing in a room they explored. "Why is this room even here?? There was nothing of value in it." Which I totally disagree with.)

This just made me remember tabletop D&D about a year ago. There was one room in the dungeon with nothing in it. We spent ages searching for a secret :hihi:

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One game I really enjoy is "Thief 2: The Metal Age."

I've never played a Thief game apart from the Thief 3 demo, but I played Deus Ex many times, which I understand shares a lot of stylistic similarities. It's a good point that older games couldn't support the amount of junk that can be simulated in a modern game. Deus Ex was also IIRC one of the first games to introduce readable books and the like. although I used to think the printout of the DX script was impressive (~1ft tall) until I saw the game that's coming out soon that's supposed to take the "longest script" crown from BG3: I think that was about as tall as a person.

Inventory management can be a bit dull in a lot of modern RPGs, because they do sometimes encourage "pick up everything" until suddenly you can't move, which just isn't fun. You could have Thief-style instant selling, although that would stop you haggling and taking charisma boosts. I don't necessarily think it's a good idea to remove carry limits as some people suggest, because there is something in deciding what to carry. But I wouldn't mind if you couldn't pick up cheap junk, only usable equipment (although you'll still get a big pile of leather armour and goblin weapons) and valuables. There isn't a crafting system to use that junk, anyway.

To be honest, I played Cyberpunk 2077 recently and I was overwhelmed by the weapons. It seemed every enemy had a different weapon, because of the combination of types, levels, brands, quality, and modifications. That time it wasn't even all junk, but potentially useful! But I just ended up selling most of them because I didn't want to spend the time comparing all the stats instead of playing the game.

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In my first playthroughs I always carried a rope, assuming that it MUST be needed.
Samwise Gamgee and Betrayal at Krondor had tought me this smile

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Originally Posted by Trantion
This just made me remember tabletop D&D about a year ago. There was one room in the dungeon with nothing in it. We spent ages searching for a secret :hihi:
Oh no! Okay, that is probably a little much, even for me, hahaha wink Fortunately, with, say, BG3 and Thief 1/2, a useless room can be cleared relatively quickly. And in Thief, that "useless" room can actually come in handy as a room to hide from guards sometimes.

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I've never played a Thief game apart from the Thief 3 demo, but I played Deus Ex many times, which I understand shares a lot of stylistic similarities. It's a good point that older games couldn't support the amount of junk that can be simulated in a modern game. Deus Ex was also IIRC one of the first games to introduce readable books and the like. although I used to think the printout of the DX script was impressive (~1ft tall) until I saw the game that's coming out soon that's supposed to take the "longest script" crown from BG3: I think that was about as tall as a person.
Wow! I had to look that up to see what you mean. A stack of papers a foot tall = DX's script? And BG3's as tall as a person?? Impressive! I hope that means dialogue, too, and not just readables. If only for readables, it definitely goes against my desire to 'not' read in video games, lol!! I get tired of Cyan Worlds' games like Riven, Firmament, Obduction and such. I cringe every time I find a book in those laugh I buy the games for the immersion and setting and such, but I've never liked the books. All those books. 30 page books sometimes.

If you enjoyed T3 at least a little, I think you might like to try T1 and/or T2. The graphics aren't as good, but the gameplay, controls, audioscape, and immersion are better, imo. Some fairly recent patches (within past 5 or so years), I think called "New Dark" (on ttlg dot com) if it doesn't come preloaded on Steam or GOG, have helped T1/T2 work on modern machines better and fix some past issues. You can enjoy more modern video resolutions, too. There are even some HD texture packs, but I've found them to bog my computer down and make the game not as smooth so I don't use them. For some reason I think captions might be turned on by default with the patch which I think is not desirable, but you can easily disable them in a .CFG file.

To me, T3 is "Thief lite" and didn't carry the T1/T2 torch nearly as well as it could have. I think Ion Storm who made Deus Ex and Thief 3 had some of their roots come from Looking Glass Studios, T1/T2's dev, if I'm not mistaken. Still, I can't guarantee you'll like T1/T2. For some reason, I just couldn't get into Deus Ex despite multiple tries, yet I love T1/T2. So, the reverse might hold true for you.

PS: Here's a Wayback Machine link to photos of the DX script you talk about... from Deus Ex's Lead Writer's old website -> https://web.archive.org/web/20051212071009/http://sheldonpacotti.com/script/
(His website seems to still exist, but I couldn't find the script images in their present day site.)

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Inventory management can be a bit dull in a lot of modern RPGs, because they do sometimes encourage "pick up everything" until suddenly you can't move, which just isn't fun.
I'm not a fan of encumbrance in most any game. In RPGs, I'm more okay with it since it is trying to mimic reality to an extent. But as a hoarder, you're right, it's a problem and not fun. I would never personally seriously advocate an RPG or BG3 do inventory management like Thief (in terms of infinite pockets, no haggling, and such), because I know many people would rebel against such a thing for RPGs... so Thief's methods can stay there. But maybe Thief and other games/methods that have done inventory well for 'their' games or genres can inspire conversations about RPG inventory management, in general, and how to help avoid hoarding that is caused by many games teaching us over the years that "we just might need that one object at this one time 10 hours from now," or "maybe I won't have money 15 hours from now and will need to sell this spoon for 1 gold." I think in the short-term, not being able to add cheap junk to your inventory would be nice for games like BG3, Fallout 4, Skyrim, Kingdom Come Deliverance and so on. (I might be wrong about KCD, but I seem to recall maybe some junk there.)

I think BG3 might be the straw that broke the camel's back in my case. I'm really going to not care so much about taking so many items, and also stop comparing useful items against my current inventory so much. Also won't be looking in every single container and on every shelf in RPG games moving forward. Similar to you, I'm just going to play the game!

Originally Posted by Buba68
In my first playthroughs I always carried a rope, assuming that it MUST be needed.
Samwise Gamgee and Betrayal at Krondor had tought me this smile
Lol, nice!! As for BG3 ropes, spoiler alert.............spoiler ahead....... I just read you can actually toss them on vents. I never knew that! But, apparently, you can do the same with several different objects. Which I also never knew!

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Originally Posted by Buba68
In my first playthroughs I always carried a rope, assuming that it MUST be needed.
Samwise Gamgee and Betrayal at Krondor had tought me this smile

That is cute, Buba.=D But I share the sentiment, always good to have a rope.

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One game I really enjoy is "Thief 2: The Metal Age."
And hello fellow friend of Garrett! Though I came to Thief a little late and the somewhat divisive third one will always have a very special place in my heart.

I feel inventory management is strongly connected to the incentive of the game. Thief and Dishonored, which shares the loot to coin system, are problem solving games at their core, so what you can pick up are tools for problem solving. Even the coin you gather serves only the purpose of enabling a desired play style. If you can't buy a tool or upgrade, you can't use it, if your preferred play style depends on it, you need the coin. In another favourite game of mine, the survival game The Long Dark, everything is useful. If you can pick it up, you can use it and most likely you even want it with varying degrees of desperation. The catch is that you can't carry everything, so you have to weigh your priorities and make notes about where you left stuff behind for your hour of need - coming back to that ever useful rope. Before they added safe house customisation, there wasn't any junk, there were only resources. Now that fixing up your favourite hovel has become a thing, a second consideration has entered the picture, the value of comfort - which I find very interesting as an incentive. In RPGs, I feel, you have somewhat free range, the question is less "Do I need it?" and more "Do I want it?" Do you want to collect one of every weapon in the game? Go ahead and have fun. The incentive is your own to decide.

In BG3, I thought, you could reasonably well distinguish between trash and treasure, with the caveat that you should always read the flavour text because some of the trash might turn out to be treasure in disguise.

I also find that personal incentives are a good way to manage your hoarding. If you want to solve all your problems with explosives, you'll probably want to stack up on them but otherwise you'll probably find another method to deal with your problems too. I mentioned that I collected all the books with my Gale, which I did because it was Gale and it seemed to fit. In act two, a second incentive was added because I had to decide whether or not to follow Mystra's command. Cat-mom Tara asked me to use my head, so I gathered information with the focus of discovering if self sacrifice was really the best solution to our wiggly problem. In my first play through I didn't think too hard about this, I simply didn't want Gale (and our lovely little group) to die, it was all the reason I needed, but when playing as Gale, I needed something to shatter my belief in Mystra's wisdom.

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Originally Posted by Anska
And hello fellow friend of Garrett! Though I came to Thief a little late and the somewhat divisive third one will always have a very special place in my heart.
Hello!! *waves*

The problem with RPGs items is that you don't know if you'll need it, so almost everything becomes, "I guess I want it", lol. With silver stuff in BG3, for example, I thought maybe I'd eventually need to melt down silver for some critical tool or weapon. Instead, I eventually learned that it is probably just expensive dinnerware/flatware that I can sell.

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Thief and Dishonored... are problem solving games at their core, so what you can pick up are tools for problem solving.
Very true!

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In another favourite game of mine, the survival game The Long Dark, everything is useful.
I love this game, too! But I'm finding it really hard. I took a year or two break because I got stuck or found it very tedious with the old lady in its 'Wintermute' story, and wolves, but finally just finished Episode One of "Wintermute" a month or two ago. I don't follow that game to know how much more game there is to play, but it almost seems like I've just barely scratched the surface, as I only just started Episode 2 and there are like 5 episodes to Wintermute??, and I think even other DLCs to eventually buy? I'm not sure. The main thing I don't really like in The Long Dark are the wolves. Too unrealistic with their AI behaviour, unrealistic aggression triggers, and their bee-line path to you. I think they spawn out of nowhere, too, iirc, rather than feeling as though they live in the world. Too gamey in that sense. Only put there to come after player.

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In BG3, I thought, you could reasonably well distinguish between trash and treasure, with the caveat that you should always read the flavour text because some of the trash might turn out to be treasure in disguise.
I never figured the flavour text out. Maybe in my next playthrough I will understand better. For example, many of the generic looking rings and necklaces in BG3 had descriptions that were interesting and flavourful, yet extremely vague to me in how that translates to their powers, if they had any. I never really knew if they were just decorative jewelry, or had some hidden powers. I tried to assume that jewelry that didn't have a color perimeter around their inventory slot were powerless and could just be sold, but I was never sure, so kept all of them for the longest time. Eventually, I think I purged some of them, but still... hard to know, imo smile

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Wow! I had to look that up to see what you mean. A stack of papers a foot tall = DX's script? And BG3's as tall as a person?? Impressive! I hope that means dialogue, too, and not just readables.

Found it: the photo is actually the Kingdom Come Deliverance script, not KCD2. It's a photo on X, I'm afraid: https://www.gamesradar.com/games/rp...publishing-director-says-i-hope-they-do/ Now, amount of text doesn't mean quality, as anyone who's asked ChatGPT to write a script will know, but I hope we can keep good games out of the hands of gen AI for a bit longer!

I have no idea if it's just dialogue or all script: the article says it was printed for the cast, but it would certainly make a more impressive photo to print all the books too. Another thing that lengthens the script is allowing the player to select their gender - just about every line that addresses the character would be doubled, or tripled if you can choose 'they'

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If you enjoyed T3 at least a little, I think you might like to try T1 and/or T2.

Thanks, I might give it a go at some point, but my games backlog currently includes BG3 (at least complete my second run), BG2, The Witcher 2 & 3, Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2 (I learnt these Larian people seem to make decent RPGs). I'm pretty sure you're right about the Ion Storm Austin - Looking Glass link. I used to hang around on the Ion Storm forums back in the day, and there was a lot of talk about Thief. And I know about the mixed reception of T:DS. Some blamed it being dumbed down for console, but also the changes they made to the Unreal engine were very buggy and put some serious limits onto DX2.

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I think BG3 might be the straw that broke the camel's back in my case. I'm really going to not care so much about taking so many items, and also stop comparing useful items against my current inventory so much. Also won't be looking in every single container and on every shelf in RPG games moving forward. Similar to you, I'm just going to play the game!

My current character thinks rooting through all that junk is beneath him hehe

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Some books do give experience points if you have the SAGE background. Gale has this background, too.

The mods are great. I just tried one that gives you a feat selection which lets you shapeshift into a cat, and then I combined it with another mod that makes benign shapeshift into an infinite-cast ritual spell. It's not game-changing, and it gives another fun way of solving problems. Fantastic!

And finally, never consume half-eaten apples. I don't actually know if anything weird happens or not, I just won't do it. No way.


Moderated by  Dom_Larian, Freddo, vometia 

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