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#97253 22/08/03 06:15 PM
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Game is rated 6,03
391 votes

#97254 22/08/03 06:32 PM
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This game is now rated:
6,04
Total votes: 392


Zephyr, God of the West Wind.
#97255 23/08/03 03:39 AM
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Voting temporarily closed due to abuse!

They better make voting by members a rule SOON.

#97256 23/08/03 01:32 PM
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[color:"yellow"]Mail from the Developer to Lockmar, Raze and me [/color]

Greetings!
We have now decided to let Most Wanted live, but only members are allowed to vote. The old votes will be deleted.
The new system will be launched within a few days.
Thanks for your help!
Tomas Skřie
Developer, ToTheGame
------------
Good news, hm? so, sign in if Div 2 is your most wanted game;) and if you wish to display this by your vote <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

www.tothegame.com


Last edited by kiya; 23/08/03 08:19 PM.
#97257 23/08/03 04:07 PM
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"the bean" just subsribed also <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
let the votes flores !


Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero
#97258 23/08/03 04:42 PM
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lews is registered <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



#97259 23/08/03 05:26 PM
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Jurak Offline OP
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1. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

2. Speedball Arena

3. Armed & Dangerous

4. Half-Life 2

5. DOOM III

6. Beyond Good & Evil

7. Duality

8. Breed

9. Strident

10. UFO: Aftermath


Sorry i've been gone for a few days.... i registered,
both are closed for voting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> and <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> 2
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> isn't even on the list....watts goin on?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


[color:"#33cc3"]Jurak'sRunDownShack!
Third Member of Off-Topic Posters
Defender of the [color:"green"]PIF.
[/color] Das Grosse Grüne Ogre!!! [/color]
#97260 23/08/03 05:29 PM
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Jurak, read the mail from the developer, it's a few posts above. Voting was closed during the night/early morning - further mails are in the "Vote" thread.
Kiya

#97261 23/08/03 05:49 PM
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Quote
[color:"yellow"]Mail from the developer Tomas Skoie

Greetings!
We have now decided to let Most Wanted live, but only members are allowed to vote. The old votes will be deleted.

The new system will be launched within a few days.

Thanks for your help!
Tomas Skřie
Developer, ToTheGame
[/color]


It had to be that way, because there was no other way.
Here is my last response to Erik.


Quote
Hi Erik

{Open Quote}

the consequenses will probably just be that we stop all voting, and remove the "most wanted" list. Better to remove a thing that annoys people, then leaving it there to annoy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

{Close Quote}



Believe me that this would be a very wise decision, at least until you have studied the art of Polling, and learning from this conundrum Erik. I admit that I had had in mind all probable possibilities concerning that malicious down voting pattern.



Your Website was not out of suspicion as being paid for this, sorry, but it kicked in as soon as 5000 votes were deleted for whatever reason because this is the first incident in the history of polling that the judge admits manipulating the votes.



Listen up dear Erik, now I have no doubt that you (“To The Game”) is innocent.

I am a retired professor and technology consultant with a Ph. D. in Neurological-molecular-biochemistry, and I am a hardware/ firmware/ software Wizard too and I have decided to give you some very valuable advice therefore please listen.


It is a very wrong decision to found a SPAM filter based on the number of votes per hour because hackers (whom I fight relentlessly) have demonstrated very high intelligence and would never fall to such a simple filter. The statistical pattern of a hacker’s attack is usually in bursts of communications that never exceeds 9 to 11 minutes with an average of 10 minutes per attack. This includes “Hackers’ probing” and Trojan-Incubation if you are aware of those terms. I learned those things when I was the responsible of the university IT club and I also was instructing on programming logistics and some languages.



Take note of some dreadful psychological triggers Erik.

When you display continuously a list of results with a game on top of that list, you psychologically trigger a contest rather than a poll. If your intentions were setting a contest then you should never touch those results because fans can take care of themselves. However, if your intentions were a fair poll, then you should never announce partial results in the way you did but a better method was to isolate the poll results completely until the voting period expires. This brings us to yet another mistake, because you never set a Voting period for such a poll. Can you imagine inviting the people of a nation to vote for elections without telling them when shall the elected take control? “A most wanted game!” On which date exactly would that be valid? It is that date on which you announce the results of the poll to keep it fair and less aggravating.

On the other hand, rating a game is a completely different subject than wanting a game; think about it.

I may judge a game as an excellent game even though it is not of my favourite type, and I may want a game so badly even though I do not think that it is the best game out there. A most wanted game is the game that gets the highest number of votes which you just deleted. To give this information to the press, you need to prove that that game was most wanted, and you cannot accomplish this task by 50 votes because that would be laughable at best.

Rift Runner reached over 6000 votes, indicating that SPAM or not, it had the highest attention and a very dedicated fan base, which speaks for itself as being most wanted. What you did to that poll was a perfect screw-up.



Now look at this poll proposition:

How badly do you want this game?

1- I need it NOW.

2- I can wait.

3- I do not intend to buy this game.



Accordingly, you can build fantastic statistics by declaring the number of fans who would buy the game immediately on its release, and those who would eventually buy it and finally those who are not interested.

This should reflect realistic data concerning the most wanted game regardless of its quality.



I can go on but that should do for now.

So go ahead and delete that very bad experiment of yours because it just creates enemies you do not wish to have.



____[Linked Image]____
........____........

#97262 23/08/03 06:39 PM
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Jurak Offline OP
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I'll second that!! ... [Linked Image]


[color:"#33cc3"]Jurak'sRunDownShack!
Third Member of Off-Topic Posters
Defender of the [color:"green"]PIF.
[/color] Das Grosse Grüne Ogre!!! [/color]
#97263 23/08/03 11:15 PM
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Amen to that! RESPECT to all how made that you need to subscribe at tothegamer to vote!! Thumbs up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

#97264 23/08/03 11:30 PM
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My opinion:
Well, no Amen, no respect and no seconding to Dad's mail: It was arrogant, rude and counter productive IMO. You had valid points in there DAD, I don't criticise them - but I criticise your tone highly, it was unnecessary, the developer was willing to help us. I doubt the admin to whom you directed both of your posted mails had these open ears and willingness.

I'm glad the developer Tomas Skoie was able to listen to statistics (16th, 17th, 18th) and suggestions(15th, 18th) presented here by the community on the 6th of August and forwarded to him.
Kiya

#97265 23/08/03 11:43 PM
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I am not only praising DAD, but also you Kiya. You have done a great job, mailing to Tomas SKoie and stuff, so he would listen to us. Causing that we can vote again, and even on a more fair way, no more downvoting, but also no more upvoting. Both causing a wrong view of the gamers opinion on the game.

#97266 23/08/03 11:55 PM
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I'm not talking about praise, Merendrious.

Barnabus, Lockmar, Raze, Rincewind, the_Bean and the whole community helped - not to forget Jolie and many many others. Without the ideas, suggestions and a lot faithfully monitoring, last not least the discipline and solidarity of the community here to refrain from voting: we wouldn't have had the facts to forward them.

All those gamers not wanting to give up and voting faithfully from the 13th July on, they are the ones to praise,though I don't really like this word <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

It was team work, nearly all pulling at the same rope end and asking for fairness several times - and an open ear/eye at that site of course.

They just could've deleted this thread, right? They didn't, for whatever reasons. The result counts.
Kiya

#97267 24/08/03 01:35 AM
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To be honest,
I had the intention to mail something like DAD did -and even less freindly- already some time ago.
But for the reasons kiya mentioned I always managed to "wait".

I still don't like the site policy. -They could block spammers.
And I understand very well where DAD is comming from.
But I agreed to give it a second chance.





~Setharmon~ >>[halfelven]<<
#97268 24/08/03 05:58 AM
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yes and aye too....same thing......sometimes nice is just too nice if you know what i mean.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

but the more complaints they get ....the better it is anyway!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


[color:"#33cc3"]Jurak'sRunDownShack!
Third Member of Off-Topic Posters
Defender of the [color:"green"]PIF.
[/color] Das Grosse Grüne Ogre!!! [/color]
#97269 24/08/03 06:15 PM
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Quote
My opinion:
Well, no Amen, no respect and no seconding to Dad's mail: It was arrogant, rude and counter productive IMO. You had valid points in there DAD, I don't criticise them - but I criticise your tone highly, it was unnecessary, the developer was willing to help us. I doubt the admin to whom you directed both of your posted mails had these open ears and willingness.

I'm glad the developer Tomas Skoie was able to listen to statistics (16th, 17th, 18th) and suggestions(15th, 18th) presented here by the community on the 6th of August and forwarded to him.
Kiya


In my humble opinion, I told the truth and I was being honest. If you consider all honesty to be rudeness Kiya then here is some more rudeness from me. I honestly believe that it is seriously rude to consider honesty and fair advice as rudeness. The general case here is called patronising where you play the role of a headmistress of a kindergarten and you may torture honest children by telling them that they are rude for being frank. Of course you can try to patronise me all you want if that gives you any satisfaction, but I am not going to be passive and polite against insolent remarks such as those that you have made.
When you compare a Mercedes with a Fiat and come out with a conclusion that the Mercedes is arrogant then your dictionary equates arrogant with elite. This makes me very proud of being arrogant; at least I have worked so hard to gain the knowledge and status that allows me to be arrogant rightfully.

As for counterproductive, I better leave that judgement to others who can see that my logical argument represented the sentiments of the majority on this forum. I am really happy for you that you believe that logging the downvoting pressured the moderators to delete all votes and start from scratch. However I am not a dreamer like you. I had to convince them by logic why they should delete this circus and reconstruct polls in a different way. I gave mature reasons explaining why rating a game is not the same as wanting a game. I did learn from logging the down votes that they shall not trigger SPAM filters and would never cause any change to the policy.
I encouraged the members here to send complains to raise the voices to reach the ears that it is not a problem of one person or two but rather more. If you feel that your leadership is being shaken for any reason then know very well that this is my last post on votes, and I shall leave voting for you to enjoy alone.

I noticed that you were opposing me at every corner on this subject whether I headed north or south, east or west and if I fail to gain your friendship then I believe that I have nothing to lose. I also think that I shall leave it at this to avoid disturbing other posters who may clearly see that you are really helpful to new members and very kindly devoting time and energy as a fan of Divine Divinity. I never meant to challenge your leadership or to shake your ego and here we split ways.

Whatever you think and however you respond, I shall not be passive and silent when anyone accuse me of being rude. Yes I am arrogant for a very good reason and I hope you can see it. If you cannot see it then that is your problem. However, I am far from being a rude person, and all people who know me think that I am very friendly and nice and considerate including you before this voting nocando.



Last edited by DAD; 24/08/03 06:28 PM.
#97270 24/08/03 06:38 PM
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The voting situation is settled (I hope so <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ) - let's leave it at that. As you use your freedom of speech, I do so, too. Your and my ways are different, this is plurality IMO. I've never seen myself as a headmistress - quite cute picture <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> - and I've never seen myself as the leader of this voting situation, so don't push me into this position, please.

Everyone is free to vote or refrain from doing this, it's about the Larian games - not persons, right?

If you read my former post closely: I criticised your tone as being rude and arrogant, that's a difference to judging the personality.

As the unpleasant voting situation was the issue - hoping this is history now - I suggest leaving the past.

Sidenote: As for cars, I prefer the small Fiats, they don't have probs with parking lots <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

My last post dealing with this topic, I see no further sense there.

#97271 24/08/03 06:57 PM
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Kiya / DAD --

Please, enough already! You are both valued members of this forum. Don't let politics spoil it for you (and for us <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />).

Like the sign says: "Check your egos at the door." ... and please please please both of you: make allowances for language and tone, relax, be helpful, have fun, and stop needling each other! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

#97272 25/08/03 03:53 AM
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@ Kiya and DAD

You both handled this situation in different ways and because of that the site administrators took notice, listened, looked at the problem and made a decision.
This was a team effort, even though you both took on the problem with different strategies and I thank you BOTH for all the work involed in doing this.


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