I will apologize about the length but I wanted to respond directly to the last few posts before continuing with part 2 of my post. Some responses were so candid and open that they deserve the respect an answer shows.

Nero - Your overprotectiveness doesn't do you credit given the sig you are using - a hostile encultured reaction to a perceived insult to a friend tells me you need to work on your deconstruction. You would be more supportive by mailing Viper in private and gossiping about what a jerk I am in suggesting that Viper maybe isn't so great after Viper went to trouble to establish a pat-on-the-back thread in a public forum where another interpretation, and, horror and shock, a potential discussion might take place.

Viper - Does it hurt when it touches a nerve? Quite a reaction, and I think great misunderstanding, of my post. Though I do appreciate and respect that you seemed to show emotion directly, immediately, and honestly - I also hope for a more thoughtful reaction later. On an unrelated note - you don't know how long I've been a member here or what names I'm using, but it isn't relevant, as personally I don't measure someone's worth by their post count (or their knowledge of the forum and it's members given that, after all, it's recorded and available for past reading). Another -1 prestige points for you.

Draghermosran - I wasn't attacking "Viper", this post will explain what I meant in a bit more detail, I think. As my post clearly stated up front, I don't enough information to directly condemn Viper, therefore I must have intended something else, hmm? And it would be unfair and counterproductive, though a bit entertaining <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> , to drag this out longer than the requisite knee jerk reactions, and perhaps see who might be afraid of a public airing and resolution of these mysterious and sad events.

Barta - Thank you, a thoughtful response and, at first glance, a reasonable question, however, we never know "all" of the facts, only those we are provided and then we settle upon as sufficient to justify or require a response. Viper provided us with enough information to warrant a discussion, as a conceptual case, at least.

Galadriel - Great Lady of the Elves, when you traveled to the west I wept, but I would not apologize to Melkor nor Sauron, but call them to task were they, or a single orc, to permit any harm to what remained of your golden wood. Evil exists because good people do nothing, a simple saying, and yet it contains some truth. You of all people, by your namesake, should know this.

And with respect to dealing with it privately...I was not the one who created a public post complaining about how I was being deliberately mistreated by someone, and then appeared to be taking no action to end the situation while protecting others, which would require a public discussion and community resolution - and warning.

Alrik~ - I do not speak German, to my shame, but I know the quote you sign with by Einstein - cheers.

Secrets and Lies

It is really quite exhausting, for those that really care, to see these whining posts keep cropping up, as though many here are determined not to learn from history. Mystery person x gossipped and lied, but I will keep it a secret, so that it can continue with others, and it can fester... (sue me, I like the word "fester")

How many times do we have to see posts about people being hurt, even leaving, and we are told that there was some unpleasantness, gossips, lies about people, there was bad behavior... And many of you lament this repeatedly, and I do not here intend to criticize or minimize your feelings of loss, but to claim concern about these things and lay claim to a community has started, nay, past, begun ringing hollow.

Delicious Irony

A website by a company whose products revolve largely around simple good and evil themes, populated by people who repeatedly conceal things they describe as deliberate lies and harmful gossip campaigns. Many of you remind me of the villagers in Divine Divinity, you suspected things, or knew things about Doctor, I think the name was Elrath?, but rather than act to work together...you know, community?, you keep your secrets and protect the lies and the plague kills members, driving them away. The villagers will stand around clucking like chickens and hope someone else actually resolves the situation, or just hope and pray it goes away, give the rats long enough, they will eat away the moldy hay.

But it's not your problem is it? Some of you only appreciate concepts of honor, honesty, openness, and community in a game, it seems.

So my question, as I stated in my first post, because I don't know Viper, but because this issue, in general, is a pretty constant theme here, is how many of you can claim to admire or respect, conceptually, Larian's products, while given a chance to, okay it's a bit dramatic, fight evil in your own lives, to expose wrongdoing (or correct mistakes and misunderstandings), to set things right - instead you have a love fest for a self admitted concealer of evil. In my experience, ok, I'm 3 days old, but it's all relative, problems exist in the world because ordinary people, you and me, create and maintain them.

From a generic perspective, I think it's a valid question, certainly there are specific cases of this gossiping/hurting/leaving situation where the criticism wouldn't apply - but then, I'm not the one whose angry now, just curious about how you all justify these conflicting attitudes and behavior.

Viper can obviously be mature enough to not treat me like a fragile doll, and respond in a direct and honest emotional way, an admirable trait - but can some of you look at your own behavior over these years and say that you could have prevented problems and did nothing instead, that you have nothing to learn from what I am suggesting, nothing to think about at least? If another 5 or 10 pleasant members are driven away, will that change your mind, or will it take an invasion of poland, because the other countries didn't count?

Disclaimer - if you are all under the age of 13 and my questions, comments, and approach are simply more than you deal with, then I should apologize, though I will not, as I did not, contrary to the opinion of some, intend to harm anyone, but trying to lance a festering boil in any community is going to generate some bad feeling. You are welcome to hate me and attack away, I'll give you my address and real name should you desire to shoot me, because my sense of self preservation is a very small price if you would stop this bloody whining and address these problems, these few bad eggs that seem to poison the community here, and we can get on with waiting impatiently for Larian's next product and the damn patch.

-If I were a lemming, I think I would push the lemming in front of me off a cliff, because hey, what's funnier than a falling lemming?