[color:"orange"]I'm not saying you are trying to get away from the attack but trying to evade it.[/color]

Changing direction is still a lot easier than changing speed, especially when flying. Trying to maneuver and attack and change speed is too much to try all at the same time. I'm not saying you should never change speed, just that it is usually impractical during an attack and less effective than maneuvering.

[color:"orange"]I wouldn't go full speed all the time when attacking someone (and evading their attacks) but I guess thats just my opinion.[/color]

In nature things being chased run pretty much at full speed; things doing the chasing may have started off waiting or slowly stalking, but once the attack starts they go pretty much full speed. There may be a little extra both can do, but they change direction a lot more than speed.

[color:"orange"]So are we gonna be dragons for sure ?[/color]

Someone posted some time ago that they saw a preview of the game and the only thing they could say about it was you would be able to transform into a dragon. I tried looking for the post briefly, but couldn't find it.

[color:"orange"]And wouldn't you want people to be able to choose for a melee type of char ?[/color]

I'm all for choice in type of character, and usually favour melee myself.

[color:"orange"]So flying into the group of enemys you wouldn't want to have a target selected or use auto aim since you will just stick your spear in whoever comes close enough.[/color]

So fly by, start swinging and hope you get close enough to hit something? Without some form of targeting, the timing that would be required for this is much greater than for the proposed ground based micromanaged fighting systems.

If you get rid of targeting, that means ranged attacks would not be targeted either. These characters would have to just point themselves towards an opponents and start firing.

[color:"orange"]...not really, you could hurt them as you fly by and as you turn and fly towards them again you might as well hit another enemy since the other enemy might be closer this time. OK, so you can't kill them all in the same hit. but you don't have to take them out one by one.[/color]

Given a choice between targets in a group, it would be much more effective to attack one that is already injured. I didn't mean that you had to kill them in order, just that it would be much better to do full damage to half your opponents (so half were left that could attack) than to do half damage to all your opponents (in which case all could still attack).

[color:"orange"]But alone vs a group taking them one by one shouldn't be able to work.
You are attacking just one target and the others are free to hit you and since you are focusing on that single enemy you will not really be able to defend yourself in a good way.[/color]

Without an area effect spell or something you are always only going to be able to attack one at a time, so the remainder are always going to be able to attack you. You don't ignore everyone but the first one you hit, but if you are able to attack that one again rather than one at full strength, do so.

About the only time you would want to exclusively target a specific opponent in a group is if you have a strong enemy doing a lot of damage (ie a mage shooting fire balls at you) surrounded by weaker creatures.

[color:"orange"]Why do you really want to target the enemys ?[/color]

Because I don't want a micromanaged fighting system that is heavily biased towards melee fighting and focuses on the player's coordination and reaction time rather than the character's skills and abilities.

[color:"orange"]I just want to hit in about the same way gothic 3 does.[/color]

How does Gothic 3 handle ranged combat?

[color:"orange"]I don't want so select targets (unless when using some spells for example curses) And if it would require targeting, yes I would like to manually pick the targets.[/color]

How would you choose the targets?
The only thing I can think of to fly, attack and target at the same time is to have your left hand on the wasd keys for flight control (the left hand could also take care of pausing and potions) and use the mouse to select and attack. This would mean trying to click on a moving target that is changing direction while the screen focus is also changing direction in response to your flying.
Of course if dragons do not have spells then in your fight system there would be no need to fly and target at the same time.

[color:"orange"]Well but unless we are the dragon it would be too weird for me to be able to control it as if it was my own char. We should be able to control it in a way but more like giving it commands. I don't want the game to be like a crazy mod of a modern combat flying game. (so don't control the dragon like a fighter jet)[/color]

So lack of targeting would reduce ranged characters to maneuvering straight towards an opponent so they could start firing and then adjust their heading to hit the opponent as required, but you don't want the fight system to emulate a jet fighter????

[color:"orange"]You could still use the wasd keys to move it, but more to evade things or fly closer to enemys than really controlling the dragons every move.[/color]

I don't see the difference between using the wasd keys to move the dragon and using them to control it. You still have to use the keys, which puts limitations on what else you can control at the same time.

[color:"orange"]And melee characters always have some sort of disadvantage versus ranged chars. But when they do get close they really are lethal.[/color]

When fighting on the ground you can always get close. To allow a melee character to fight on a flying creature the game would have to be biased so that no creature could fly faster than you could (so nothing could hit and run repeatedly) and there were no effective ranged attacks.

[color:"orange"]why would we have to stop attacking ? and switching and all that ? did you really think this through ?[/color]

Ok, you are flying in a circle and an opponent on the ground has a ranged attack. Since you have a very predictable flight pattern even a simple enemy AI would be able to quite consistently hit your mount, thus killing it. Once dead it would fall to the ground, as would your character, which would be fatal.

Do you still see no need to simultaneously control both the flight and fighting?

[color:"orange"]so you really want a combat flying game where they made the fighting jets look like dragons ?[/color]

You seem to have no trouble advocating a control system which has been used in a different genre of game.

Flying is movement in 3 dimensions, and in order to have guided flight you must have a certain level of control. It doesn't matter if the thing flying is a dragon a jet or an alien, you still have the same physical restrictions and requirements. There is also fighting, which requires additional controls. In order to fly and fight at the same time, some controls must be automatic (roll left/right) and some optional (such as speed).

As for input, everyone is restricted to (at most) two hands, and the controls must be at least functional with a keyboard and mouse. Given the requirements of flying and fighting and the restrictions of input, I would think it impossible to come up with an effective control system that is completely unique.

The point of this discussion is for Larian to get a sense of what people want to control and what they would let the computer control. Since you want a very manual fight system you don't need any targeting, so the basic flight and attack controls are adequate. I don't want micromanaged fighting, so require a way to select opponents. Given the restrictions on controlling flight, attacking and targeting I can not think of a good way to do everything at once, so need to make further choices as to what is important (which for me results in the need for an auto-target system).

[color:"orange"]And I don't want to offend you in any way but reading some comments made it look like you enabled some sort of "ignore whatever he is typing mode" and just comment further on your own post instead of mine.[/color]

We are having a conversation. It isn't a question of ignoring you; if I believe you have missed the point of something I've said I will try to clarify it (as I expect you to do with me). If I realize I have missed the point of something you said (ie I didn't realize at first that you didn't want any targeting at all) then my earlier comments may be slightly off and I might also need to clarify or redirect them. If you bring up a point that gets me thinking about something else, I'll go with that. If some point or example I am making brings up something new (like hovering) that I wish to make a short side comment about, I don't think it is out of place to do so in the same post. The footnote about the game demo was to give an example of a control system to fly and fight, and is relevant to the overall conversation even if it is not directly in response to our own. If you can think of a game with a micromanaged fight system for a flying character, similar to what you would like, feel free to mention it so people can check out the demo.