Originally Posted by mbrown3

I understand what you're saying, but again...since I am the one that said it, without any other information, it should be assumed that what I'm saying is my opinion.

For sure, I agree with this. I mentioned earlier that I try not to assume anyone is ever trolling - this illustrates why. At this point it seems is clear we have no major point of contention. I agree that people have the right to post their opinions without justification (and to be semantic these would no longer be opinions but arguments), and unless I am mistaken you agree that there is value in clarification even if unnecessary to one's purposes. It has been an interesting discussion though smile

Quote

I also posted the way I did in response to some of the other comments in this thread...none of which, BTW, were called out in the same way mine were. Case in point: "If you want to play with a controller (2nd rate form of controlling games) play PS3 and Xbox games."

Well to be fair, this is not entirely true...
Originally Posted by Bonerbill
Originally Posted by pauljonas

If you want to play with a controller (2nd rate form of controlling games) play PS3 and Xbox games.


I really hate elitist staments like this from my fellow PC gamers...


Originally Posted by apoc_reg
Originally Posted by pauljonas
If you want to play with a controller (2nd rate form of controlling games) play PS3 and Xbox games.


What a prat!

... though I certainly sympathise with your frustration in simply adding your opinion to the thread only to be accused of not having one (an opinion) and being told not to post it wink I can see why the poster may have reacted that way and what they possibly meant, but that isn't necessarily very helpful.

Originally Posted by mbrown3
Originally Posted by Robcat
Again, I agree that it is not always necessary for you to elaborate for others to ascertain that this is indeed your opinion. I agree that opinions are often self-evident. I am not suggesting that we always need to announce our opinions for them to be recognized, nor am I criticising your original post (I already said I had no issue with it). I am simply arguing that phrases like 'in my opinion' have value beyond their apparent tautological use, and that you might have communicated more effectively had you used that or another similar phrase to provide more meaning to your statement.


This assumes, though, that my goal was to communicate effectively. Because it was an opinion, I don't care whether it was communicated effectively or not. I was simply sharing my opinion on the topic, in response to the many other opinions that were also offered here. Efficacy never crossed my mind (nor, I would argue, should it have).

Fair enough, as I said later in that same post, "Granted, this only necessitates a qualifying phrase (albeit a tautology or something similar) if your goal is to avoid having your tone misinterpreted." Personally, I usually consider how my comments might be read and how effective I might be communicating in any given context, though this is in no way essential for anyone (myself included) to state their opinion. I did not mean to challenge your choice of words so much as simply illustrate my point of view.

Originally Posted by mbrown3
Agreed. I do not believe that this is one of those cases, as it was neither sarcastic nor a complicated statement. It was clear, to the point, and overt...exactly what I intended it to be/say.

Yes, neither do I... that it was apparently provocative enough to be taken for trolling is beside your point. As I have repeatedly mentioned, I have no issue with your original comment (beyond wishing it was more meaningful, but that is not your problem). If it wasn't for the resulting exchange with Elenoe I would never have been interested enough to post a response.

Quote
... it is not of remote concern to me whether people want me to defend my opinion (especially when the only similar defense of the alternate opinions is a list of games in which controller support was implemented poorly...which has nothing to do with my original statement, since I clearly articulated, "if done properly").

I would argue this is an over-simplification of the thread and points raised (though yeah it wasn't exactly an in-depth debate about the pros and cons of each input system), but this doesn't discredit your overall point. We are free to care as much or as little as we like about how others may read us, and about how much we would like to elaborate.

Quote
I meant "why do they need to" in the context of someone stating an opinion, not in general.

Ah, I get you, understood. Well, generally they don't need to, or shouldn't need to wink

Originally Posted by mbrown3

Originally Posted by Robcat
Out of control? In some instances yes, like for example a response you received ITT! Personally, I generally have a greater problem with people lacking a polite tone, clarity and substantiation in their forum discourse than I do people going over the top qualifying their statements, though YMMV. I do wish that it didn't feel so necessary for me to qualify what I say at times and I do agree it can be a real problem.


I generally don't have an issue with polite tones, clarity, and/or substantiation, for all of the reasons I mentioned above, namely that clarity and substantiation seem unnecessary for the statement of an opinion (also, tone can be easily read into anything, accurately or...more often, I would argue...inaccurately). And, if we're honest, all of the posts in this thread about controller support have been opinions. It's not like anyone offered any truly substantive affirmation of their perspective. Nor, I would contend, should they have to. But I hear where you're coming from.

That's fair, people engage with texts differently, who knew. Good point about tone (I wouldn't want to argue about whether tone is more often interpreted accurately or inaccurately, that seems quite the quagmire, if no doubt interesting).

Yes, nothing was really established regarding the kb&m vs controller debate, if it can be called that. I (generally) wasn't using the word 'substantiation' in its definitive sense, more to describe the formation of argument through logical reasoning to give weight to an opinion/perspective - the prior sense is seldom achieved. Regardless, no one is obliged to provide substantiation for their opinions in either sense, though of course we may want to for argument's sake.

On the other hand it wasn't as if the thread was merely all opinions and non sequiturs. There was some valid argument raising interesting points - food for thought that people could consider or investigate further at their leisure. It was a valuable discussion.



p.s. Bit of an epic derail but I am unrepentant! It has been worthwhile.


*edited to fix quoting

Last edited by Robcat; 03/07/14 07:09 AM.

"Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that" - Leunig