Originally Posted by Lacrymas
How can we even discuss SP when we aren't even clear on what an RPG is?

Why not? People think differently about many topics and that there is not one golden rule to everything...

I didn't think this was so hard or so confusing. You don't say why you don't agree with me, you just say "just cuz", that's not an argument. I back up my arguments with logic, history and sources, not wishful thinking :p

Logic? I must have missed that. Pretty much your whole point is based on what others think about the topic (hence the link to wiki). It's just one big argument of authority. And you're not even interested in what other people think here. You only want them to think like you and accept your opinion - that you just took over by different people (who wrote a book about it, or two). At least that's how pretty much everything you write here appears to me, sorry...

We have to get at the bottom of this, otherwise all discussion regarding RPGs is moot.

Ahem, no. Actually the very opposite is true. Discussion is only possible when there are different opinions and views. If everyone thinks the very same on every topic there is nothing to discuss left. You can very well talk about SP in DOS, no matter if you see the game personally as an RPG or not. It's completely unimportant anyway because the label "RPG" is only used to described certain elements. It has no meaning beyond that. It has in particular no meaning for game designers. You can very well discuss certain design elements without ever using the term RPG at all.

D:OS is an RPG. Why? Because of menu-driven combat. Fallout 3 isn't an RPG. Why? Because you control the actions of the character directly. Simple. Effective. Clear. I guess the confusion comes from the fusion of genres?

Your confusion comes from the simple point that other people have different definitions if you ask me...

Genres like Action-RPGs and Action games with RPG elements exist for a reason. It's not because people were confused and were simply drooling on their keyboard, somehow managing to form words.

Yeah, there is a reason: people trying to describe their game in as few words as possible which is the sole reason for genres to exist in the first place. Over time that can of course raise certain expectations within players, but - surprisingly - quite different ones, especially (and I agree with you on that one) since games included more and more elements of once different genres. Still, it's only a mere description. I don't even see the value in talking about that so much at all. I'd rather return to discussing the concept for SP in DOS 2...

There are even books published about game genres and game design, so that would've been a lot of drool :p

There is a book about everything, whether it has any point or not. I don't see the point. (Edit: I mean the genres, not game design in general here. There is a lot to be said about game design.)

Can we now go back to SP, please? I mean, we won't ever agree on the definition of RPGs anyway. There is no point in discussing that any longer.

Last edited by LordCrash; 05/10/15 09:11 PM.