Originally Posted by Kalrakh
I'm not totally sure, because much time passed since I played the first game, but I think enemies always had a chance to recover each turn, because Body Building/Willpower got tested every turn. If not, I would not mind to have it changed that way.


No, it definitely didn't work that way.
IIRC knockdown from slipping was the one exception, that could be what you remember.

Originally Posted by Kalrakh
If hard CC is the issue, than it is because the Delta of Randomness ist to large
...
- make hard CC a low chance effect of a skill and soft CC a always chance of a skill
- make hard CC only single target and high tier, high tear meaning 8 skill points and above into a skill tree and not 3, 3 is ridiculous low. In the first game you needed 10 points to learn one Tier 3 skill, 15 points to learn more than one. (But you got skill points later on much faster tough.)
...


Sorry, I mostly agree with you but that delta of randomness thingie gets on my nerves smile
Seen it repeated a lot nowadays, it's perfectly fine to use plain english for the specific cases instead of an arbitrary catchphrase that's too abstract to be useful.

For example, the problem with OS:EE:
- 1 aero 1 hydro gives 4(!) low CD hard disables, it's only getting worse from there
- you can cast a lot of them in 1 turn so failing isn't too big a problem
- damage output is so high that anything disabled is dead by the time it wears off(that includes end bosses)

In OS2 damage is still so high that a hard disable getting through means the target is dead.
Both your quoted suggestions could work, but only if overall durability of enemies goes up(or the silly damage output of a munchkin party is toned down).


My preferred solution would be some kind of resistance system(possibly tied to armor percentage if you want to be close to the current one), where hard disables always work but duration can be reduced a lot.
They could last for <1 turn, by removing some AP from the target and bumping its initiative down(for the next turn if it already finished its move).
The reduction can be either deterministic or chance-based.

An example that doesn't stray too far(asspull numbers ofc):
- target has totally intact 50 armor, hard CC only has 20% base effectivenes so a 2 turn disable only takes away ~2 action points(from 8) and reduces initiative to 60%
- after doing 30 damage target has 20 armor, effectiveness goes from 20 to 68% so a 2 turn disable works for 1 turn and takes away ~1 action point/reduces initiative to 64% in the second


Originally Posted by Aryah
Do you have an example of an RPG where this is better? Outside of DOS I mean.


For me an example of a good stat system would be Fallout's SPECIAL and the perks/skills/traits that tie into it(1-2 and tactics, NOT the Bethesda ones).
Even that does have some hard and fast rules but it's very involved and interesting.


I don't think chess is a good parallel, it's full information while OS games aren't(could randomize parts of an encounter/parts of abilities to make sure it doesn't get stale).
While you can anticipate some moves it's also unrealistic to know what'll happen in a 4 vs many situation 3+ turns in advance. Doubly so if damage rolls/crits are still random.
Don't have a problem with RNG and my favorite games usually utilize it a lot but IMO it's silly to flat-out reject deterministic mechanics.


Hiver try to reason, don't think many people are interested how you'd like to bash their skulls in with hammers.
You could start by explaining how there is no randomness in RPGs smile

Last edited by Draba; 28/09/17 11:09 AM.