Well, we seem to disagree on a fundamental level.
I don't find it excusable for RPGs to have poor combat, and sadly the big majority of them do. Coincidentally, the only ones that don't, use turn-based systems. Now, you might think that's a coincidence, but I don't think so.
"TB is very tempting for save scumming"
What does combat system have to do with the save system? Most games don't allow saving in combat at all. Other games that do allow it implement a rolling seed system that mitigates save scumming (see new XCOM games).
"when Swen said that part about missing a lot being frustrating - imagine it in a turn based combat. it is infuriating enough to make you savescum. I have had players at the table totally frustrated by missing twice in a row with 80% + hit chance (iirc the worst streak was 5 misses at 90% hit chance, one being critical and losing the weapon, losing horribly to an objectively weaker foe in the process) in RTwP the high miss chance is mitigated by the fact that everything is moving so quickly."
I don't think your example of the tabletop experience is very relevant without knowing classes, party level, buffs, creature being fought. I can have my players fight a dragon at 5th level and they'll miss every attack - that doesn't mean turn based is worse because they're missing, it just means my encounter is shit or they're terrible at the game.
It's true that RtWP might mitigate the "miss" situation by masking it through the quick pace of combat, but it does nothing to address it. This leads to players not even realizing they're missing, which in turn promotes designers creating encounters that don't even require any brain to get past to save players the frustration (like most of BG2). Again that goes back to my earlier point - players who defend RtWP don't actually care about the combat and just want to skip it and all mechanics. Are these the people that should be deciding the combat system of a game? If they just want to skip it, there's combat-system independent ways of doing so (difficulty settings). If a game has a combat system its normal difficulty should force players to interact with its systems to solve problems - and that's exactly why Turn-Based is the preferred choice, its slower pace of information allows for much more organized and premeditated encounters that make players use strategy to overcome them. It's why the Original Sin games aren't RtWP, it's why ToEE isn't RtWP.
If you don't like the possibility of missing you can just reduce the difficulty, there's nothing wrong with that. Alternatively, you can get better at the game - either by yourself or simply asking for help online if you're having trouble. It's a rewarding process!
Last edited by Iuris Tantum; 15/06/19 11:32 PM.