Originally Posted by Sordak
Casters are OP because in RTWP half of the Martials options dont even exist. Its a fundamental flaw with DnD. And the only edition that fixed this flaw, 4e, was universally hated by purists and thats why WOTC now locks any usefull maneuvers for martials behind the Battlemaster subclass for fighters.
RTWP makes the whole thing worse by making movement far too safe, thus making martial battlefield controll even harder to achieve.

If it's a "fundamental flaw with DnD", then it has nothing to do with a system being RTWP and not TB.

If by "movement being too safe" you mean the kiting strategy is too good in the BG games, then that's true. But this has nothing to do with whether your character is a caster or not. You can hit and run with any character. In the case of casters, it is mostly because there are spells that make your character completely invulnerable to everything. In the case of archers, then it is because the BG games do not have an Attack of Opportunity mechanics (and maybe other PnP mechanics that I'm not aware of). I don't see why these mechanics can't be implemented, at least to some extend, in a RTWP game, however. In NWN you will take a lot of AOO's if you move about recklessly in combat. The first Pillars of Eternity game implements a ridiculously heavy AOO mechanics, with every single enemy and their dog being able to perform AOO, that cripples spellcasters and the whole combat experience in general.

So the bottom line is, this starts to sound like a "balancing" problem to me, which can be handled just fine without having to change the whole system from RTWP to TB or vice versa.

Originally Posted by Sordak
Because in my opinion, you just stop paying attention to 5/6 fights. Oh look its goblins again, lets just autoattack them to death. or lets just cast fireball and thats that.
From what ive heard from people that enjoy RTWP, the parts about RTWP they actually like, as in, the planning ahead, the thinking what each character is going to do.
The identifying of enemy casters and what they are going to do.
All of that exists in turn based systems. But without the tedium of trash monsters.

I don't see how this cannot happen in a TB game? You're speaking as if "the tedium of trash monsters" is something that only exists in a RTWP game. If I'm playing a TB game and see that "it's golins again", then yeah, you bet I'm just gonna autoattack them to death, or instant kill them with a fireball. If anything, having to do this in TB would make it even more tedious. I don't know - you've been trying to convince everyone that TB is a superior system, but most of the times you're citing reasons that have nothing to do with the system being RTWP or TB.

Originally Posted by Sordak
in Turn based, you mut commit to your movement as you rightfully point out. This means you must predict what your enemy is going to do on his turn.

If you say RTWP is "less tactical" because you generally don't have to commit as strongly in a plan of action, fair enough. That is your opinion. IMO, "commitment" is hardly the single factor that determines just how "tactical" a game's combat is. To me, how tactical it is depends on the depths of mechanics, the level of interaction between different abilities, interaction between characters and environment, cross-class combinations, the possibilities of unorthodox and creative strategies, timing your various attacks for better results, coordinating and positioning party members, and numerous other finer, obscure details which you probably won't find out unless you use an editor to open up the game's data or read them on a wiki.

Originally Posted by Sordak
In RTWP; you can change the direction of your move at any point and immediatly react. Thus its less tactical as there are less risks to be taken.

In TB, you can "predict", but you can play the "predict" game just fine in RTWP, if you like predicting. In RTWP, I can change my course of action and immediately react, but so does every single enemy. The real problem here is AI, which is a scripting problem. You want the AI to be able to react in a smart manner. To me, it is not "less" tactical or risky. It is simply a different kind of tactical and risky. In RTWP you can pause and think, but it doesn't change the fact that time is ticking, and sometimes, in the toughest fights, you have to time your moves perfectly. When there are 12 combatants on the battlefield, there's plenty of tactics and risks in keeping track of how long various effects last and timing your various offenses and defenses from all party members. In TB you can sit back and leisurely do whatever you want within your turn, and just sit back and watch enemies do whatever they want within their turn. This is one of the things that make RTWP *fun* - a faster pace and more frantic experience, without having to compromise the tactical aspect. Not to mention, RTWP simply reflects a real fight better. Period.

In the particular case of Baldur's Gate 2, all it needs is a few select mods that rebalance items and abilities and improve AI across the board. If you say BG2 + Item Revisions + Spell Revisions + SCS is not "tactical" and challenging, then I have no idea what is.

Last edited by Try2Handing; 19/06/19 10:21 PM.

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