Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Then how do you explain RTwP games having a TB option? This same argument should equally apply there as well, yet the TB mode in P:Km works very well according to TB fans themselves. Seems like this is a very convenient one-sided argument being made only from the TB side, that all RTwP games should have a TB option but not vice versa because TB games cannot have a RTwP mode something something. I don't buy it for even a second. Seems like a self-serving argument from TB fans so that they can have everything their way.

We don't really know how difficult it is to accommodate both. We can only speculate. It might be easier to add TB to a RTwP game, or vice versa, or more likely, depends on the mechanics of the game itself.

I'm sure this is how TB fans will spin it, but I wouldn't buy that spin at all. If a TB mode can work well in a RTwP game, the same is equally true the other way around. Claims to the contrary are merely self-serving, imo.
Originally Posted by Emrikol
As for Kingmaker, if I understand correctly, the game had an underwhelming reception, so it was in their best interest (i.e $$) to try to make it more appealing/accessible. Conversely, DOS2 had no such need to add a RTwP option, because of how well the game did (and probably continues to do). If it hasn't started already because of the success of DOS2, a hit with BG3 might spell the end of RTwP (or slumber, at least).

Wrong. P:Km has had excellent sales numbers for such a small-budget game made by a tiny studio nobody had ever hear of. Subjectively, Owlcat themselves have stated they are overwhelmed by the financial success of their game. Objectively, a recent article somewhere put their sales number at somewhere around 1.2 million. D:OS2's sales stand at around 2 million. P:Km did extremely well, and all of this was even before the current definitive edition which includes the official TB mode and console release.

So it is indisputable that a vibrant market exists for RTwP party-based cRPGs. Sure, the TB side may be the majority, perhaps something like 54% to 46% going by recent surveys on people's preference. But if the cRPG industry decides that 100% of cRPGs made are going to be for that 54% group, then they deserve to be made to pay a price for telling the 46% group to drop dead. And the only way for the 46% group to make their voice heard and be treated fairly by the industry is to refuse to support games that don't recognize and cater to their preference. It is exactly how all minority interests ever get heard.

According to Steam charts:

Players right now: P:K (2,896), DOS2 (9,341)
24 Hour Peak: P:K (3,180), DOS (10.535)
All Time Peak: P:K (22,643), DOS2 (93,701)

Steam is of course not the only platform, but the sample size is more than sufficient to expect very similar results elsewhere.

And how you think that first quote of mine is spin is amusing. I don't know how I could be more reasonable. What special knowledge do you claim to have that lets you be so certain that "If a TB mode can work well in a RTwP game, the same is equally true the other way around?"

And if the markets for RTwP are there, games will be supplied. It's no conspiracy. Developers and publishers are businesses (with more knowledge on the matter than you or I), and if they think offering one or the other (or both) will be more profitable, they'll do it. There's no more to it than that. There's no ideals involved, no persecution, or oppression. So drop the whole martyr complex about your "minority interests" being heard or not. It's not politics. It's business.