Originally Posted by Emrikol

If you need it spelled out for you, we expected it to be pure IGoUGo, since that is what Larian's previous last two games are. Then they initially showed BG3 would be more WeGo. After some critical feedback, it went back to mostly IGoUGo, but with a little WeGo too (for players, and possibly enemies, whose initiatives are back to back). If you familiarized yourself at all with Larian's previous games, or even just watched some footage of BG, you would see how asinine it is to question if characters will continue to execute orders. Once again, everyone else seems to know what is meant by TB. We're not talking about all possible variations of it. You're the first person in 65 pages who hasn't caught on to this.

EXACTLY how the frak was I supposed to catch onto anything? Someone merely saying that a game will be TB doesn't really mean anything specifically because there are at least SIX different ways to do a TB game. Ergo the questions so I could understand EXACTLY which kind of turn based game we are talking about. I don't give a damn how Larian did their other games because we are not discussion their other games. We are discussing BG3 so that's the ONLY game with which I care about being familiar.

The only asinine person here is the one who resorted to that childish ad hominem attack. There isn't a damn thing asinine about the possibility of characters, or units, in a TB game continuing to execute the last order given from turn to turn UNLESS orders don't last more than one turn and so the player has to keep issuing the same orders or new orders every single turn over and over and over again. Those are NOT mutually exclusive options. You seem to be wrongly assuming that every single TB game works that same way and that is far from accurate. I'm not assuming anything about how BG3 might work. Just because a game uses some kind of TB system that does NOT preclude persistent orders. I've played plenty of TB games where orders were persistent so the units keep following the last order given. It is POSSIBLE in a TB game for the characters/units to continue following the last order given. Just because the games YOU are familiar with don't do that doesn't meant that isn't possible.

So, now that we have established that BG3 will basically be IGoUGo then exactly what is it that you think players can do other than watch while the turn executes after the player is done with the player's turn? I have never played any "pure IGoUGo" game as you put it where I did anything other than sit there and watch while the computer executed the turn after I gave all of my units their orders. You keep insisting that I'm supposedly wrong about being only a passive observer while the turn executes. Well then, again, if BG3 is going to be "pure IGoUGo" then what else can I/we do beside sit there and watch while the computer executes the orders we gave to our characters? You are making ZERO sense about this because you are making two mutually exclusive claims.

Originally Posted by Emrikol

Maybe I am wrong, but in a RTwP game that pauses after every round or turn, wouldn't all the characters and enemies be acting simultaneously? For example, six seconds of mayhem wherein everyone on screen is either moving, attack, casting, etc? If I am right, then no, it would not be like TB at all. The full quote of yours is "Baldur's Gate and BG2, and if memory serves also in the "Icewind Dale" series and the "Temple of Elemental Evil," can play like a TB game by setting auto pause only for rounds and then not manually pausing at any other time." Maybe it could be true for some weird version of TB, but it is absolutely not the case for the kind of TB we have been talking about.

Technically yes, because the animations run simultaneously once the next turn begins all of the NPCs and player's characters would appear to be acting simultaneously because that is what happens in a real fight. However, they would only do something that actually counts as an action - i.e. move, attack, cast spell, or take some other kind of action - when their initiative permits them to do something per the rules. So, during a one minute turn with 10 six second combat rounds, or initiative rounds, every character/unit with an initiative of one would execute an eligible action after six seconds on the first initiative round. If memory serves, in the AD&D rules used for the IWD & BG games each six second initiative round was called a combat round, and then every minute of combat was a combat turn, which was different from game turns of 10 minutes. Anyway, in initiative round two every character with an initiative of two would take an eligible action per the order it was given. So if it was told to move and the distance takes more than 12 seconds to cover then that character would keep moving. If it was told to attack and its weapon is fast enough it would execute an attack. If it was told to cast a spell and the spell is fast enough it would cast a spell. The sequence continues until the end of the one minute turn. Thus, characters with one attack per turn would get their one attack on the initiative round corresponding to the speed of their weapon, and spells would cast according to the speed for casing the spell, and movement would stop if the distance they were told to move takes less than 60 seconds to cover. Since both sides are acting simultaneously in the IWD & BD games and TofEE (which was TB not RTwP) this is a phased WeGo without reaction system. All characters/units on both sides get their orders before the turn begins, then they simultaneously execute their orders and get to do their action the rules permit them to do during a turn on the round that corresponds to their initiative. So, speed 3 weapons would attack on round 3, speed 5 on round 5, and speed 8 on round 8. Speed 2 spells would get cast on round 2 and speed 7 spells would go off on round 7.

So, you are wrong about it not being TB at all if a RTwP game were set to pause only at the end of each round/turn because the only time any character would take an action that actually counts for anything would be when its initiative permits it to do something. Just because animations have all of the characters appearing active the only time they are doing anything that matters or counts is when they are physically moving (which uses up initiative and movement points) and when their initiative permits them to do something. Consequently, a character that has animations showing it swinging its sword five times during a one minute combat turn the only swing that actually counts as an attack is the one the one attack it gets when initiative permits it to make an attack.

There isn't a damn thing weird about anything I've described before. I get the impression that anything you don't understand or your not familiar with is weird to you.

Originally Posted by Emrikol

Orders are not given ahead of time and executed after hitting some kind of start command. Yes, AI does their thing without your input. But your characters need to be controlled (or should be to avoid any dumb pathing issues) during the turn. For shit's sake man, watch some game footage and you'll see how none of the examples you have given apply to what's going on here. In all fairness, this thread represents a general argument on RTwP vs TB, so it is possible that we should have separate threads for each kind of comparison. But, more reasonably, we can expect the type of TB we are talking about to me the kind Larian is known for; the kind that was in DOS and the kind that will be in BG3.

For shits sake man, what you are describing is NOT pure IGoUGo. Clearly you don't really understand what you are talking about because you can't conceive of anything beyond your limited experience with Larian's other games because that seems to be the limit to the size of your box. What you are describing seems more like PHASED IGoUGo if all of the orders are not given before the execution of the turn and are instead issued during the turn. This means that during the turn each side issues an order to an eligible character on the initiative round that it is eligible to act. Again, that is NOT pure IGoUGo as you wrongly claimed earlier. You are confusing both sides alternating giving orders and taking action DURING a turn with both sides doing that BEFORE each turn. Just because the action/orders go back and forth between the two sides DURING a turn that does not make a TB game "pure TB" as you wrongly put it.