Originally Posted by JDCrenton
Originally Posted by denhonator
I keep seeing that surface effects are the decisive factor in fights and that melee doesn't work but I really don't think so. Fire isn't enough to kill anything really. It just deals a little damage. Meanwhile a warrior with a greatsword can one shot a lot with menacing attack + frighten is crazy good.

The spider? I fought it with 2 rogues backstabbing, wizard throwing spells and cleric healing mostly. I did drop it down by burning its web before combat which really helped. The little spiders pretty much all came in the same turn. After they group up you can just AOE and clean it up. Surface effects would've hurt my rogues more than anything, and they deal BIG damage.

I very rarely use surface effects and the game isn't even hard. I still think there's too much of it. It's not very fun to use when it's so common and often all it does is lengthen the fight when you could just take a straight forward approach instead. But if you as a player feel like surface effects rule fights, I think you haven't given other approaches a fair try. Maybe since it's not part of 5e, you guys are forgetting to utilize backstab and high ground? Just get behind or above enemies and hit them. Stronger than surface effects

You don't even need to make a rogue, heal, waste spells, etc... classes don't even matter, there's so much freaking cheese. And having 10 enemies go for the squishie i assure you that no one can evade unless rngjesus is favoring them through the whole fight ( Extremely rare with how the dice roll is implemented ). If you fight it legit you get overwhelmed right away, the normal phase spiders also do very good dmg with acid spits and even the small ones hit hard. You can't count on the ini system either because of how broken and random it is. I literally can clear this fight using the shittiest char you can think of just by abusing the hide mechanic. The big spider only needs 1 successful attack to one shot you. You are not getting the point at all, the whole backstab abuse and advantage is also a D:OS thing. You didn't beat that fight legit or like a D&D game, you were just abusing the gimmicky larian feature like always.

No one is saying that this game is hard when is exactly the opposite because of all the gimmicks and bad mechanic implementation.

This is amazing, and freaking hilarious. Someone lays out a "non exploit" method to take on a fight, and you fall back on what you do? Larian did not invent sneak attacks. In fact, DnD would be closer to that "title" than anything else. I had sneak attacks on my rogue in Baldur's Gate 1. How is that a "larian tactic"? Did 5e remove sneak attacks? If I look up an online manual, and find it, can I just link it to every post you make from now on saying "but it's not DnD"? "But barrels" are in FPS games, and even 3rd person shooters that predate Larian. "But elemental arrows" were in the first BG game. "but surfaces", Grease says hello, along with a myriad of other AoE spells that have been in DnD since before there was a real Player's Handbook.

The scenario painted in the post you quoted here? That's something that I've seen used in table top sessions that predate even 3.5. So I'm not sure what you're going on about, except maybe "It's not what I want, so no matter how much people show me that the exploits I use in combat aren't required, they are, and that's bad". You see, my solution to "too many barrels" is that I don't carry them around with me. Burning a web out from under a spider isn't "cheese" or "a Larian/DOS system", unless you're trying to claim that Larian games are the only games where webs are flammable? You see, in order to get to your level of animosity to this game, I really do have to take it to that ridiculous length. There's no other way for me to get there. I have to assume that Larian made the very first PC game with exploding barrels, and that CC/damaging AoE spells are a direct result of Larian's influence on gaming. Of course, the sheer number of games that I've played that predate Larian, and yet have some or all of these mechanics in them is staggering, but hey, I've got to try to find some way to support your narrative, right?

Serious question: Are you next going to try to claim that TB combat is a Larian feature too? It's about the only thing left you haven't tried to attribute to them.