Originally Posted by Argonaut
PSA: Highly controversial opinions incoming.

In my experience there are two types of neophytes.

Type A is genuinely interested, wants to learn, is happy to receive advice and criticism and understands a lot of the unspoken rules and precedent that already exists in the community. These people are great and you usually can't tell them apart from people who have been a part of the community for a long time.

Type B doesn't care and is seeking some kind of validation. They don't care what anyone has to say or why certain choices where made. They do not care for the fantasy genre and more often than not are high fantasy luddites or the type of people that cannot separate reality from fiction. These people consider being given advice to be a slight, will ignore anything that doesn't suit their viewpoint regardless of evidence or reasoning and do not care for the quality of the finished product as long as it includes their criteria which tends to have nothing to do with the finished product.

Type A is great. The best Type B can bring is death to the hobby so we can rebuild it from the ashes with more privacy and actual gatekeeping although I imagine if they where aware of how heavily they are being gatekept at the moment it would be another social media fiasco.


Originally Posted by Darthmansour
Well... becase they came out 20 and 30 years ago, ofcourse they are pretty dead in sales, that makes sense no? most those who play or played them already have them. POE is the only *new RPG* with a style close to classic Rpgies and it did pretty well. So Its obviously not dead and there are still people who would like to play RPG games and not dumbed down games.
I dont think anyone one can really call themselves RPG gamer without playing at least POE.

And ofcuorse things need to change and you need to get on with the age, but that doese not mean making a souless AAA game. There is a balance needed between classic and new, otherwise, the new is forgettable.

As a backer for PoE and a classic CRPG fan / tabletop nerd PoE didn't seel well because it was mediocre at best. It tried to appeal to the new crowd while throwing the old crowd under the bus but didn't tone down the high fantasy enough to appease the prior while not focusing on strong writing to appease the later, losing most of both in the process.

Most fans of older games don't care about things changing. We care about the writing being awful, about everything becoming homogenous, about high fantasy being toned down and down and down to match reality reducing it to low fantasy and low power etc

I agree with you, POE was mediocre at best compared to classics, and ofcourse we are unhappy with awful writing and everything else you said, but I am realistic and understand that things have to change since its a business. However, its better to try influence for a better game and product then just say why it is not as good as the classics, although totally agreed there.

Kingmaker I did not play, but from what I heard, the writing and chars are pretty bad, its not only about gameplay and mechanics, classic RPGies had souls. And had excellent writing.