Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by azarhal

- side with the goblins + Haslin alive -> destroy grove + win DC with Minthara to have her you join you or fight her if you fail
- side with the goblins + Haslin alive -> backstab them and side with Tieflings at gate (The path with the less deaths despite you betraying both groups once)
- side with the goblins + Haslin dead -> backstab them and side with Tieflings at gate (next thing I'm trying, I'm hoping I can corrupt the Grove to the Shadow Druid still after it is done, but like all Shadow Druid stuff probably bugged)
- side with Zevlor -> kill Khaga -> (no idea as I haven't done it)
- side with Zevlor -> Expose Khaga -> (no idea as I haven't done it and it's partially bugged)
- side with Khaga -> kill Tiefling (?currently bugged, you can't talk to Zevlor after Khaga asked you to deal with him) -> Ritual happen which piss off Minthara (if Haslin is alive he's sad he can't return to the grove when he shows up in your camp)
- kill all 3 leaders because Haslin won't help you otherwise -> Tielfings live by association but you don't have to care
- kill all 3 leaders because Wyll asked -> Tielfings live by association and you probably care (the path call the goody-two-shoes one despite it having you kill more than if you raided the Grove)
- Haslin dead (regardless of how, he can die as a temporary companion while clearly the temple) -> once you read his journal you can just ignore the side quest of dealing with the refugees and continue on with the main quest

Explain to me why you think only the first option fit an evil character?

You're listing permutations to two major outcomes. If the outcome has no "party scene" it does not count. This makes the "Goblins = evil and Tielfings = good which means "goblins dead (kids included)/tieflings alive = good "and "goblins alive/tieflings dead = evil"." dichotomy exactly what the writers intended. There is in fact a hilarious double take going on in the narrative right now where the story bends over backwards to paint the Tieflings as totally innocent bystanders and goblins as downright racially inherent to evil. If you talk to the goblin child at the camp's entrance for instance it tells you that its parents were killed in a raid, only to then follow up that it doesn't care because the weak die and the strong survive. Okay? Cool social values these goblins have. Meanwhile I cannot name a single thing the Tieflings do wrong in the narrative besides endangering what is apparently a group of racist bigoted druids led by a demagogue bent on ethnic cleansing.

My character certainly did not give a rat's ass about the Tieflings, but at least they are presented as civillised beings. You cannot say the same for the goblins and even if you did it would not matter, because they backstab you if you help them. Even Minthara does unless you pass a few dialogue checks. There is a very likely permutation to the evil path that has you end up with significantly less than what you started with. Not just with 0 leads or allies, but also with a traumatised Shadowheart that is now locked out of approval gain for good. Even a murder hobo chaotic evil character must be thinking they fucked up at this point.

When I am talking about nuance I am referring to the storytelling, not the outcome or even really its permutations. All of those are very rigid. Imagine if the druids decided to have a little nature party with you after you force the Tieflings to leave early. Or if the Gith creche / shadow curse alternate paths are added. Those would be actual new options.

It doesn't count? That's not what the game is tell me by supporting it in the EA ending cinematic.

You think it doesn't count. Not the writers, they made it a side quest (actually 3 side quests) which means it is optional.
You think role-playing is following black or white breadcrumbs that reward you with a black and white outcome instead of taking decisions based on your character's personality. Not the writers.
You think certain action leads to certain long term results you can't even prove exist because they aren't in the game. This has nothing to do with the writers.

You think NPCs should react certain ways to your character. The writers have the right to write NPC whore are lying to you, manipulating you and using you. Evil doesn't make you immune to those.

When Larian asked for evil feedbacks, that one quest options isn't what they meant. Lawful is actually the most lacking aspect in the game right now. Chaotic (good or evil) is the more prevalent. And evil (well entitled/vengeful/power hungry) isn't far behind Chaotic. Good (nice) is near Lawful in term of prevalence outside the Grove.

There is no reason when I get near the Druid Stone circle for the first time that my dialogue options when told I can't enter are:
- act like I own the place
- act like I own the place
- why can't I enter?
- leave

Last edited by azarhal; 26/10/20 09:25 PM.