So what I see is that the list can basicly be summed up in a variety of categories. Complaints. And often generic ones at that. Points where the game compares alot to DOS. Points where it compares to BG, but the opinion is that theres to little of these. And things that either seem to be bugs, incomplete features or things that just need to be adressed. Which is what the EA is for. Il list some feedback by each points why I do or do not see the merit behind it.
1. Choice of color palette. I mean.... Ok? Bg 1 and 2 were pretty dark in a lot of places. Why is this a complaint exactly?
6. Battles based in the environment and not in Character Class. 7. Height (King of the Hill gameplay) Combined these 2 because they are literally the same. Height giving advantage is a VERY frequently mentioned point of critisim. BG dident even have heigh (or lack thereof) so uh.... You all want a flatt world or something?
8. Backstab (only lacking the ground indicator from DoS). Uh. Yeah? They use the same engine. Also its a dnd 5e rule. Attacking someone who cant see you gives you advantage. Whats the complaint?
14. Food everywhere that is better healing than everything else. Food defenitly isent better then the greater or superior healing potions so this is just outright false.
27. Stealth sight cones. Why is this a complaint? It allows one to make use of stealth. Seriously why are the vision cones a complaint?
29. Limited to 1 summon per character. Might be for balance reasons, or engine related. There also arent many classes outside of necromancer or conjurers who can actually get multiple minions.
31. Turn Based vs Real Time with Pause. The game is based on 5th ed dnd. Dnd is turn based. Making it real time would mean things like reactions etc would need major overhauls or simply wouldnt work. Cant run away from a melee threat as a wizard while also casting spells for example, which you CAN do in turn based.
33. Closeup character models for Portraits. Ive seen multiple games that use this system. Whats the complaint exactly?
34. Teleportation fast travel accessible from anywhere. Fast travel is a QoL improvement. I mean. Why are these things issues that people complain about? If you dont like it just walk everywhere. THAT IS AN OPTION. You dont have to fast travel....
35. Narrator’s voice is Malady from DoS 2. Ok. So they used a voice actor they got experience working with? Why would this make it more or less BG or DOS? Cant they use ANY of the voice actors that have worked in their previous games?
38. Same highlighting mechanic of climbable surfaces. Its literally the same engine.
42. Merchant UI. What about it. Dont like it? Got improvements for it? What? Whats the complaint? Honestly the merchant UI from bg was dreadfull so I dont know why this would be something to complain about?
43. Giving free items to the merchant increases your ‘likeable’ score for that merchant, resulting in lower prices. Ok. So they got a barter system? What about it? Want to suggest improvements? BG actually dident give you a chance to barter so I guess that means its more closely tied to DOS but..... Why is the fact that you can raise rep in place of a barter system a bad thing?
44. Stealing from someone with one character while you are talking to them with another character. 19. Succeeding on a thieving check but the target magically knows you stole from them a few seconds later. Merged these 2 as they focus on the same thing.Yeah? What did you expect that you can rob them of everything up to and including their underwear and they would never notice?
45. Giant contiguous maps rather than small and more discrete maps. You dont like it I guess? What does this have to do with either BG or DOS though?
46. 4 party limit. Dnd is balanced around 4 man parties. Dont know what to tell you.
47. Same map and minimap UI (showing interactable ground, map markers) SAME. ENGINE.
48. Hotbar UI. What bout it. You know what also had a hotbar? BG.
49. Resurrection mechanics, animation (being able to magically teleport someone when resurrecting them) seriously what the everliving **$_ why is this a complaint? What does this have to do with BG or DOS?
55. Lockpicking progress bar. Why is this a complaint?
58. Showing the percentage to-hit. Anyone who can do basic math and who understands how they can calculate odds will know that a die results can be directly translated to a percentage. 75% to hit is probably more clear for non DnD players then needing a 6 and up for a hit. Its a QoL improvement for non dnd players
61. Companions completely block movement. Hey guess what also blocks your movement in dnd? Your teammates.
62. Same party management UI in multiplayer. How is that a complaint? I mean seriously. Do people expect a totally different UI if they go into multiplayer or something?
66. No Fog of War. *sigh* the game DOES have fog of war. You can only vieuw a very limited area around your characters and unless you have LOS to creatures they are effectivly INVISIBLE to you. THAT. IS. FOG. OF. WAR.
67. Ability to keep one or more party members out of combat via Stealth. Ah I see we are putting 'players are offered tactical choices' as complaints now! What does this have to do with BG or DOS? You could do this in both of these games and im sure im plenty of other games as well.
68. No tracking of normal arrows. A QoL improvement is now complained about. Guess you want to keep in your inventory every now and again and check if you still have plenty of arrows but I think most players wont miss it.
70. Aimbotting AI (automatically knowing which party member has the ‘least’ in a defensive stat and focusing solely on them). Look up the defenition of aimbotting please. Also most games that have a sort of 'ac' system have the AI targgeting the most vunerable targets first. Its tactical sense. Why is this a complaint? Do you want braindead AI to fight against?
72. Infinitely summonable Zombie companion. Must admit I dont know what this one is about. My assumption is the 'husband' zombie from the bog? Why is putting funny and/or usefull summons in the game seen as a bad thing?
So most of this above list imho can be tossed in the trash. It either has nothing to do with DOS nor BG or is complaining for the sake of complaining. Or just outright complaining that the game is moving forward with its time rather then holding on to bg1+2 features from 20 years ago.
Comparisons to DOS
2. Origin characters vs NPC companions. Yes they do use a very simular system compared to what they used for DOS.
3. All Origin characters discovered nearly immediately in the game rather than organically throughout the entire story. Does indeed follow the same formula as DOS. But dont see that as a bad thing per se.
11. Barrelmancy. Granted, way to many barrels in the game currently. Thats also why a new thread pops up about it almost daily.
12. Surfaces *everywhere* cantrips creation 13. Surfaces having overpowered effects beyond just damage. Merged these 2. I feel that cantrips creating surfaces is indeed to powerfull and that seems to be the concensus on the forums as well. Outside of cantrips though? Outside of cantrips I havent really ran into THAT many.
15. Encounter design that assumes you are fully rested for each fight. Thats what they need EA for to balance the encounters. But currently? Agree that some of the fights are TO hard considering were supposed to be in a hurry!
16. Every fight involves flashy gimmicks and enemies using a host of special items (elemental arrows, grenades, healing potions). I must be missing something. Flashy gimmicks? I dont really see what you mean by that Enemies using tons of consumables I agree with though.
17. No normal enemies. Define 'normal' please. Because ive seen plenty most of the enemies in the game are generic normal enemies actually.
18. Reused DoS items that don’t exist in D&D 5e (Trap Kit). Agreed there. What a trap kit does you can do with thieves tools in pnp DND as well. And you also dont consume them with each lock either!
20. Enemies have insanely high HP values, needlessly lengthening combat. Agreed. Thats feedback on encounters though. Doesent make it more or less BG or DOS.
21. Chaining party members and movement system. Agreed, I personally hate the system. Specially considering how easy bg 1 and 2 managed to do multiple party member movement.
22. Shared inventory space. 23. Inventory management and UI. 24. Swap any gear on and off in combat. These 3 basicly all complain about the same thing, the current inventory UI. And agreed. Can use some work. Doesent make it more or less BG or DOS though.
26. Overly flashy effects for mundane actions (Jump, etc) Agreed. Some of the flashy animations are overly flashy for what they are doing. (jumping beeing a good example) but at the same time it makes it more visible that something is going on.
So this list was alot shorter but I do agree with alot of it. Point is though, the game is made in the divinity engine and made by Larian so obviously its going to have some simularities in areas.
Comparisons to BG
10. Exactly the same starting pattern. Start as a prisoner on the vessel (boat/nautiloid) of our mentally flogging enemies (Magisters/Mindflayer). Vessel is attacked and we must take advantage of this to escape. Only everything does not go as planned and we fall off (void/water) and we are saved from dying by a mysterious force. Then we arrive on a beach and we wake up. Proceed to small settlement nearby. Guess which game basicly has the same starting premise? Baldurs gate 2. Outside of you not beeing on a vessel or starting on a beach the intro is pretty much identical.
53. Only able to customize 1 character at the beginning. [color:#FFCCCC]Guess what game you could also only customize 1 character in? Baldurs Gate.[/color]
56. Most books and item descriptions extremely short. Do me a favour. Go into baldurs gate. And grab a book or look at an item description. Whats that? You could look up item descriptions and many BG books but most were very short as well? Oh inmagine that.
List abit shorter but some of the complaints why its to much like DOS could also apply to bg.
9. Removing Class identity by making each character a Swiss Army knife, able to do everything (converting many Actions into Bonus Actions that normally only a Rogue would have, all classes can use scrolls, all classes have massive mobility in combat due to Jump, etc.) This is something that really needs to be adressed. Giving everyone a feat that was restricted to the rogue robs both the rogue of his identity as well as unbalancing the game in other classes their favour.
50. Needing to double click to cast ‘self’ range spells. Agreed. Not sure why thats a thing at all. Although granted some spells can be cast on others as well in which case I understand it. Guess they just need to remove the un-needed confirmation.
52. No non-combat exp or reward for avoiding combat. I do notice xp for conversations sometimes but agree that non-combat options should be equally rewarded.
57. No need to identify magic items. Agreed. Needs to be added.
59. Being able to right click on an enemy an ‘examine’ them to learn all of their stats. Agreed. Needs to be removed. Thats a fighter subclass (Champion I believe) feature and shouldnt be available to everyone! That said, seems like a left over feature from the engine.
60. Moving cursor around a target can change whether you hit the target or the ranged attack is intercepted. Yup, agreed. Its because of the way in which line of sight can be drawn. Incidentily also why magic missles can miss, which shouldnt be the case!
63. No day/night cycle, it’s always the same time of day in the location. Agree that its inclusion would be better.
64. Cannot adjust starting gear. Agreed. Should be defenitly changed.
65. Overabundance of magic items that remove the need to pick certain spells or abilities (Amulets for Speak with Dead, Misty Step, staff with Create Water, etc.). Agreed but at the same time I can see the reason why. Adding memorable things that dont really give you an over powered imbalance but have some nice quirks fits in nicely with DnD. But it shouldnt overpower the usefullness for having spellcasters with those features either. Tough to balance those 2 things.
71. No random encounters. We dont know that. From what we have seen in the EA so far, sure. However we dont know whatever or not they would actually be in the final game or not.
So these I would classify as genuine criticism. It doesent have much to with simularities between DOS or BG though. Some of these should be added imo and a few are things that they are working on while others ive seen no mention off.
Potential bugs/things that still need to be adressed
4. World full of meaningless items. 5. World full of meaningless containers/locked chest with very little of value in them. Merged these 2. Item placement in the game is something that needs to be done but imo obviously something that simply isent done yet during EA.
25. Screen shake on ability selection, regardless of activation. Havent noticed this myself. Maybe a craphical glitch?
28. Swap spells nearly at-will. Admit, lac of that doesent seem to be like an intentional feature imo. Picking spells by day is a big DnD feature.
30. Being knocked prone ends your turn. Seems like a bug, it shouldnt.
32. Overpowering low level characters via magic items (Doubling Magic Missiles damage). Made mention of these myself. But overall game feedbacl. Not something that makes it DOS or BG per se....
36. Normal attack with duel-wielding weapons attacks with both at the same time. Seems like a bug? Considering you get a 'attack with off hand' ability if you dual wield its probably a graphical thing or hasent been seperated from how dual wielding works in DOS.
37. Reused ability names and animations (Great Weapon Master is called “All In”) Well if you have an abilitiy that basicly does the same thing a quik reskin or name swap doesent seem like a bad idea. If anything, it saves development time!
39. Same blocky item reveal UI that doesn’t actually show the item (pressing Alt) 40. Same revealing a hidden item graphic. Combined these 2. Yeah alt needs to light up everything that you can interact with. Not sure why its not doing that currently but my guess is a incomplete feature.
41. Terrible pathing that will lead to allies unintentionally walking over surfaces and traps. Think this is a bug. As the AI dident have this problem in DOS.
51. Inability to target party members for spells/abilities via their portrait. Guess we can chalk that up to a bug or missing feature. Considering you can click on a portrait and it confirms that its an option but currently isent working makes me think its just needs to be fixed.
54. Excessively long ‘AI thinking’ delays in combat. Think thats a bug. Only had it happen once myself and every other time it takes its turns pretty quikly.
69. Wallhack scouting via camera manipulation. Camera very obviously needs tweaking and/or overhaul. Its abit finicky atm and defenitly not working as intended.
So as the header 'potential bugs/things that still need to be adressed' implies..... The game is in EA. Theres bound to be bugs and unfinished features in it. Thats why we are participating in the EA and helping them find their features. And if you dont want to, well they gave everyone some very clear warnings about the state of the game so if you missed that its on you tbh.... Feel free to come back later at a stage where its more done or even when its fully launched if you dont want to see half-finished features.
So looking back over half of the list could be tossed in the trash in my opinion (generic complaints) while alot of the other points have merit but most are not specificly tied to BG or DOS. They use the same engine (that they made themselves) for Divinity so ofcourse it will look alike in some areas. Plenty of dnd features (like missing actions for example) just seem to not have been added yet and others (like most of the things in the last bug list) dont seem to be intentional. The game has been in EA for, what. 3 weeks? While they said they would need a year at the very least. Give Larian some time to take in the feedback and actually put in work to get things into the game.
I will ignore several general responses you provided:
- Responses that questioned why something was a complaint, because none of them are complaints.
- Responses that some things should have been compressed because I'm trying to strike a balance of including both General and Specific factors, with specific factors being broken out when there appears to be sufficient focus on it in this forum and Discord.
Lastly, my responses are not in numerical order but rather in the order you provided.
#29. This is categorically false, least of which because the Beast Master Ranger *in the EA* already runs into this problem by not being able to have their Find Familiar and Animal Companion at the same time. Never mind when spells like Conjure Animals, Find Steed, etc. comes into play. This restriction to 1 summon is a feature of DoS and does not exist in BG, where you were only limited by the capabilities of the engine at the time. Do note, that the DoS engine is perfectly capable of having more than 1 companion (Glut's army), so the restriction is clearly intentional by Larian.
#35. Already breaking my rule above, but the complete overabundance of British accents is also something I meant to include, but decided to make it specifically regarding Malady. You will notice I did not write the factor that they reused Amelia Tyler. It's that they had her do the *exact* Malady voice. Having the exact same voice from DoS in your ear, without any changes at all, is objectively a factor that makes you feel like the game is more DoS and BG. Amelia is an incredibly talented voice actress who is more than capable of varying her voice to be a different character. The choice to have her repeat the sounds of Malady was a conscious decision and consequently is a factor on the list.
#46. First, that is incorrect. D&D is not balanced around a 4 person party. Specifically, it if balanced for between 3-5 (based on the DMG), and WotC published adventures assume 4-5 players. Moreover, the BG series is well known for being 6 characters, while DoS is known for being 4 characters. Neither game has those as exclusive factors, but both those statements are true. So on the list it goes. Ironically, making it be 5 characters would make the game more 'unique', though 6 would make it more BG.
#48. This factor was tweaked slightly to better emphasize the specific factor. See the previous posts in this thread.
#58. You are correct regarding the capability to do the math....except no. Because the math requires you to know both your to-hit chance and the enemy's AC values, neither of which are immediately apparent. Again, not complaints, just factors. You do bring up a good point though that I will add to the factors, which is that you have full access to the stats of the enemy just by Examining the target (with the caveat that DoS did require you to level up a particular skill to get more information, while BG did not allow that at all).
#61. Incorrect, which leads me to believe you don't really know the rules of 5e. Which is fine because that's not what this discussion is about. Companions block movement in DoS, they don't in BG.
#66. That is both wrong (you can see creatures well before you party can) and not what Fog of War references.
#70. Admittedly I knew 'aimbotting' is not an accurate term, taking suggestions on something that better conveys the factor. Enemy AI perfect knowledge? This remains a factor, more so because DoS literally patched this exactly factor because every enemy had essentially Max stats for knowing the characters statistics. But it still famously happens in DoS and does not happen in BG, so it's a factor.
#17. Normal enemies refers to enemies that do nothing more than attack with their weapon, without any special moves, abilities, consumables, or throwables. BG had plenty of enemies like this, DoS practically had none. So its a factor.
#10. Not really sure how to respond to this besides agreeing with your statement of facts but disagreeing with the conclusions you draw? I listed roughly 10 elements to this factor (start as prisoner, on a vessel, mentally based enemies, etc.). BG 3 shares all 10 elements with DoS. BG 1 shares zero of those elements. BG 2 shares two as best I can count (prisoner, freed by outside attack). So across 20 possible times to have those elements occur in the introductory areas of BG 1 and BG 2, it occurred 2 times. In DoS it correct 10 out of 10, in BG 3, also 10 out of 10. That's why it's a factor, and that's why the most commonly typed response in chat when Swen did the first gameplay reveal was BEACH BEACH BEACH.
#53. Did you actually play BG 1 and BG 2? You could literally make a party of entirely custom characters.
#56. Again, this is just wrong. Here is a link to the books
provided in the BG series. Please just do a spot sampling. History/lore Books in DoS, and BG 3, are a few sentences at most and usually contain text in < > brackets to indicate a summary. Compare that to your spot sampling, where there are several paragraphs of lore for each book in BG. Ironically, this can easily flip from a DoS factor to a BG factor if Larian just copy + pastes the lore text and then updates them based on 'current events' at this point in the Faerun timeline.
Hopefully I didn't miss any!