Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by ash elemental
And yet Minthara & co act as if they do

Ofc she do ... read what you writed abowe, and it should make sence. wink

Makes sense for whom?

No idea what do you mean whom ... it makes sence in general.

We were specificly talking about that Minthara "consider themselves superior" to quote your own words ... therefore it makes sence, that she dont offer you anything.
We were specificly talking about that your character also "consider themselves superior" ... therefore s/he have no reason to bargain with Minthara.
This simply should make sence. :-/

We ofc. could argue about if Minthara simply overestimated her power, or its the basic RPG problem: "god < player". :-/
But in mine eyes ... she have on her side powers of Goddess, whole cult of fanatics, quite some conciderable army of goblins, and she herself is no strainger to battle ... you have 3 dudes (or ladies) ... from pure roleplay perspective, she have every right to feel ontop.

Originally Posted by ash elemental
Just because Minthara is evil, the goblins are evil and my githyanki wizard is evil doesn't mean they all share the same point of view.

Never told that they should. O_o

Originally Posted by ash elemental
That is what makes alliances between evil characters of different backgrounds so difficult to write, and this is where the writers have failed so far. When you lack a common goal, you need to bring something to the negotiating table that the other side might be interested in.

I disagree ...
If you created character that gets to dead end, unable to cooperate with anyone, yet unable continue without them ... that is storytelling problem ... but as far as you have where to go, yet you simply refuse and demand to change course of all characters around so you can continue in way you choosed, no matter the consequences ... that is player problem.
Here, where I come from, we usualy call it "protlačit to na sílu" ... closest translation i found will probably be "forced power play".

Its simple as that ... if you as player wish to cooperate with Minthara, you need to play character that is able to cooperate with Minthara ... you specificly played character that is not able, so you probably should not (or you can ofc. that is completely up to you, but it probably would feel kinda odd).
To create world where everyone is able to cooperate with your character no matter what character you play is litteraly impossible. O_o

Originally Posted by ash elemental
Good characters can be united in their willingness to help those in need. And my impression is that the writers thought that this means the opposite must be true; evil characters must be motivated in their willingness to rampage and murder.

I think you are watching it from bad angle ...
There are two factions ... tiefling and goblins ... and you need to choose between them. Honestly i believe that Druids are there simply to add some presure to Tieflings and support the inevitability of conflict ... if Tieflings could stay as long as they need, there is simply no problem, since goblins are unable to harm them as long as they stay inside.
No good, no evil ... just two sides of one conflict.

Then your character comes in ... and since that second its all up to you ...

You play goldstar hero that will help anyone in need? You help Tieflings.
You play sadistic butthole who enjoy murder and mayhem? You help Goblins.
You play greedy bastard, who wants just profit at the expense of others? You help the one who offers more. (Tieflings right now, unless you sucess in persuation check with Minthara, asking for reward.)
You play selfish person, who dont care about anyone and anything except his own comfort? You probably dont help any side, since you dont want to expose yourself to risk.
Dunno ... any other profiles?

It all depend on point of view ... you can also say that your lawfull good character helped goblins, since you killed their leaders that were forcing them to attack surounding settlements, and therefore alowed them to keep living in peace ... yes, you would also help Tieflings, so it dont change anyting in the end, just saying that there is multiple sides to see this whole conflict.
After all, whole point of killing goblin leaders is presume that without them, goblins will no longer attack anyone, there is no need to kill every single goblin in their camp. laugh

Originally Posted by ash elemental
Minthara & Co are acting as if an evil PC would be on their side, even though they come to the negotiating table empty handed.

Not sure who is "they" but it seem to me that both sides come to negotiation table same empty handed ...

Minthara may seem to expect player to join her ... but that have several reasons:
For one, why else should player even talk to her, if he isnt open to this option?
For two, she concider player to be True Soul ... therefore she can expect player to worship Absolute, same as herself ... and therefore their goals should be simmilar.
For three, player is not forced to be part of that raid, he is just offered that place. There are some dialogue choices (that i didnt try so far) where player can tell her, that he helped when he bring her location of groove, but raid is her job. Also, im quite sure i have read somewhere in this threat that someone missed whole raid somehow.
And last, but not least ... there is that fact that Minthara is smug b**ch that see herself as superior. smile

So her acting make sence to me.
This whole raid was planned long before player even show himself around, so she have whole plan prepared even without player ... all she needed was groove location. Players participation on this raid, is welcome bonus ... but its not crittical. smile

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 19/11/20 01:14 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!