Originally Posted by Sozz
Originally Posted by Eldath
Originally Posted by Nyloth

Well, we see it differently.

I think Astarion is one of those who will use your help if you are kind to him, but sooner or later will betray you. I also don't think the source of his evil is just vampirism. And the problem is that it's a CHAOTIC evil, not any other subspecies. This is not a habit. Not an injury. Not a law for him. This is a kind of entertainment, pleasure. In fact, if you try to fix him, you will destroy the basis of his personality.

A lot of people think he's a victim of his master, I think he's always been an asshole. And if that's the case, then fix a 200+ year-old asshole... well, it looks very illogical. For me ofc...

But Yes, this is just my opinion. If they give him an arch of redemption, I just want it to be logical, not just because the fans want it to be.


I just can't see him as chaotic. He has a law: "stay alive and stay on top no matter what".
That just strikes me as neutral evil, that is to say, self-serving dialed up to 11. The reason he is not lawful evil is because he will always put himself first, and the reason he is not chaotic is because he is fully committed to his own freedom and survival.
I think we will get a redemption arc IF and only IF Astarion manages to forego either his desire for survival or freedom. That would naturally result in him dedicating himself to a purpose outside of himself. It would break his internal vicious cycle of wanting to be alive at all costs pushing him towards enslavement and enslavement pushing him towards wanting to be free.
This is very hard to write however and I'm afraid that Larian may not be able to handle it.
Or maybe they will surprise us and pull of something genius.
Or maybe he really is irredeemable.
I'm very hyped.
It's the "no matter what" there that does it, and what part of fully committed to his own freedom doesn't make him chaotic, if he was fully committed to other people's freedom that would be classic Chaotic Good, no?
I think that the difference between being neutral, chaotic, and lawful can be pretty murky but the difference between Chaotic Evil and Neutral Evil, to me, is usually some kind of principal you'd put over yourself.

I'm always down for a good redemption arc, I don't understand the people who've said that its a tired trope.


I've always seen Lawful Evil as the one with the 'higher calling', if you will, while Neutral Evil as kind of like the out-for-themselves chaotic neutral but willing to go the extra step
Originally Posted by Eldath


Originally Posted by Sozz

It's the "no matter what" there that does it, and what part of fully committed to his own freedom doesn't make him chaotic, if he was fully committed to other people's freedom that would be classic Chaotic Good, no?
I think that the difference between being neutral, chaotic, and lawful can be pretty murky but the difference between Chaotic Evil and Neutral Evil, to me, is usually some kind of principal you'd put over yourself.

I'm always down for a good redemption arc, I don't understand the people who've said that its a tired trope.


I think the "no matter what" part is exactly what makes him a bit lawful. He does NOT compromise on it. There are no such commitments on the chaotic side of things. It's spontaneous. However since Astarion is both somewhat spontanenous and somewhat commited, I would settle on him being neutral on the law-chaos axis, and evil on the good-evil axis because his goals are all self-serving, even at the cost of other people's lives.
I think commitment and chaos don't really mix, because there is an expected consistency. Consistency leads to regularity, regularity tends towards lawfulness.


I think what makes him chaotic is that his current goal is quite crazy, wanting to control the tadpoles straight out of the bat despite knowing jack about them, and he also wants to kill as much people as he can while pursuing it. A lawful evil, like Lae'zel, or a neutral evil, like SH, would be way more practical, which they are.