Originally Posted by Sordak
>there are no 3.5 games
neverwinter nights? toee? Kingmaker?
No i just know my way around the community and i know the posessive attitudes 3eaboos take.
And it keeps coming up on this forum so dont act like it isnt true.

I'm speaking about Baldur's Gate and the like. To be honest, I'm unfamiliar with those games - but there hasn't been a Baldur's Gate title in 3.5e.

Originally Posted by Sordak
>removes all those calculations
... ok, prove it.
Because those calculations are largley still there. Yes 5e still has stats, in case you havent bothered to check. Yes attacks still hit AC (no thac0 here), yes theres still saving throws targeted by spells.
the primary difference are advantage and how skills are handled.

In 3.5e you have 50+ different skills that you can opt to spend skill points on to reach between your character level +3 and half that for maximums depending on whether or not it is a class skill. There isn't a single proficiency bonus for a handful of things you have a proficiency in, but you get a bonus based on your skill points, your ability modifier, racial modifiers, and item modifiers. You also get skill synergies where having 5 or 10 skill points in one skill grants you a bonus in another. Your armor class actually changes based on whether you are caught flatfooted, or hit with a touch attack. You have different fortitude, reflex, and will saves based on your ability modifiers, magical modifiers, item modifiers, and class. You start with feats - and not just some very plain, vanilla feats, but a wide array of hundreds of possible feats across the books that allow you to do multiple things that just don't exist in 5e. You can get grafts if you find the materials and someone capable of doing them to add undead features or draconic features. You have the ability to gather followers and companions. You have epic levels that theoretically have no limit but seem naturally capped at when you've mastered godhood. You have monster templates so that players can literally play as any monster in the monster manuals. There are way more possible classes, multiclassing, and prestige classes.In the fights, the ability to charge and take a 5 foot step are mentioned - though I'm not as familiar with the fighting mechanics of 5e since they lost me at character creation - so I'm not 100% sure whether or not 5e handles partial hiding, grappling, etc, but I do know 5e lacks the ability to forgo movement to get two attack actions and certainly doesn't have the feats that allow you to trip or disarm enemies, sacrifice accuracy for power or offense for defense, or get special metamagic abilities from being the target of certain spells in your past. Evil and neutral clerics lost the ability to rebuke the dead. I'm pretty sure 5e lacks flight and water speeds.

Originally Posted by Sordak
And thats not a positive thing. WHy would you pick a fighter if you could pick a warblade?
Why would anyone want to be a Purple dragon knight?
3.5 was just a bunch of splatbooks full of trap options. Those are stupid systems.

Details? Yes, I love details. If you don't like the options they offer the great thing about that is that they are OPTIONAL - you don't have to pick it. You are literally arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to have options because those options aren't right for you. Another cool thing is that it is a roleplaying game and so if your choices are flawed you literally can have fun with those flaws. A player in my group created a clumsy ass elf - low dexterity - because they felt like it, despite the +2 dexterity bonus. His wife mocks him in game for it.

Originally Posted by Sordak
but lets get back to your old argument.
Your argument is that the problems with 3.5 are irrelevant in a video game.
let me explain to you why youre wrong on this.

theres not a lot of calculations 3.5 does in combat that are more complicate than 5e, and the char sheet is perhaps marginally more difficult to manage.
The "Difficulty" comes from the having 400 different options that seemingly do the same, but some are confusingly worded and might not do what you think they do at all.
No ammount of automated calculating is going to explain to you why touch attacks bypass natural armor but not dex armor class bonus, to just give a real mundane example permeating several DnD editions.
OR how psionics work. Its not going to make the Totemist make sense to people.

There is quite a bit that complicates things more in battle, but my issue isn't even with the battle mechanics. It is with the character customization options. You can fine tune your characters to do what you want them to be able to do. Non-Wizards had a reason to be intelligent. They had all these options so that you could find something you like and the DM Guide helped DMs design more to make sure their players could have a good time. 5e is class stereotypes which detracts from the very complexity of roleplay. 3.5e made it possible to have wizards wear armor if you designed your character right - you could design an cleric that could steal and pick locks or a fighter that was a scholar. It may or may not be a good idea - but you could do it if you wanted to. At the same time, you could very much play the character in a stereotypical fashion if you so chose to. No option was forced upon you - but you had the choice.

Keeping track of all these different calculations - on your character sheet - is what drives people nuts. However, you now have a computer keeping track of it all - no erasing numbers and writing them over. No doing addition for 50 different skills. It wasn't calculus, but it could be tedious, and you don't have that tedium when it's in a videogame. Once again: people who like 5e specifically cite the fact that they don't have to do that paperwork and it lets them focus on the story; people who like 3.5e cite the options that you think no one should have. Yet you keep saying the 5e people are wrong because there isn't that paperwork after all.