I love it when the Illiad comes up in a Minthara thread smile @KillerRabbit <3
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
... For the Greeks the battle between Achilles and Hector was a divine battle. On one side you had the favored of Aries fighting to avenge his fallen lover and you had the favored of Aphrodite and Hera fighting for home and hearth. So equally matched are the two forces that Zeus himself need to show up at the end of day to decide the winner. Pederatic love and lust for battle are stronger forces than romantic love and the love of home; for the Greeks Zeus + Aries > Aphrodite + Hera.

Or to take another example -- the sword fight between Luke and Darth Vader in the Return of the Jedi is just a better sword fight than the one between Obi Wan and Vader in Episode III because of 'alignment'. In the first the battle is symbolic of the battle between the light and dark sides of the force. Our hero finds out that the emperor is right -- by striking out in anger, by giving into the dark side, Luke is able to best the better swordsman. Only to realize that he is becoming that which he opposes. So he turns back to the light, puts aside anger and desire for vengeance and suffers the consequences. Only to be saved by the redemptive power of paternal love. Here the moral of the Illiad is turned on its head. Home > Lust for power.

The Episode III fight is a visual treat but it's kinda forgettable because instead of a fight between dark and light we have a contemporary reading -- in a series of lore breaking lines Obi Wan states that the Sith are evil and Vader says that the Jedi are evil. Instead of a story about the battle between two very real cosmic forces we get a contemporary story about how warring forces tend to demonize the other. More familiar? Yes. More relevant to current politics? Perhaps. More lifelike? I say no. Emphatically.

Oh, sorry if I misrepresented your views on Mithara. I don't think I represented the views of every Minthara fan -- some have explicitly said they like the notion of reward. Not trying to shame -- one's kinks are one's kinks smile
For the Greeks, Achilles choosing to fight that battle is a tragedy. Greek heroes are ones who are forced to destroy themselves in order to preserve their own honor, this need to preserve honor extends even to the Gods who are willing to allow terrible things happen for the same reasons, Hector killed (unwittingly) Patroclus so he is technically as culpable as Achilles. Another facet of the Illiad that you don't typically get is just how long the Greeks have been waging war, After the focus of Achilles' slighted honor turns from Agamemnon to the Trojans, he is no longer behaving like an honorable Greek, killing Trojans who surrendered, unthinkable at the start of the war, now happens, as the Greeks find themselves resenting having to fight for so long to appease the pride of one of their Kings. And don't forget what becomes of Agamemnon either.

Spot on about the saber fights in Star Wars and Jedi, though another thing people seem to forget about Luke is that he is forging his own path here, both Obi-Wan and Yoda believe Vader unredeemable and council Luke to kill Vader, good thing he listens to the Force and not some ghosts.

I'm no fan of the Prequels, let that be clear, but I think that the whole point of the Emperor's scheme is to make people and Anakin in particular call into question the very issue that we're talking about here, if morality can be subjective then how can the Jedi be righteous actors, not a lot of the films support this but I think it's a good concept and a great way of getting a good person to delude himself into evil actions. Anakin's fear of losing Padme makes him into a tyrant, if only he was a likable character first.