Originally Posted by TomReneth
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Absalom
Originally Posted by Wabash
Let us free to savescum and give us an ironman for those against it.

I thought of an alternative solution that may balance the Save Scumming to reroll an encounter and Saving to shield progress:

Aside from the Autosaves the game applies, tie Progress saves to Short Rests (we have 2 of them) and perhaps the Camp and Waypoints.
You get 2 "free" saves out in the world but need to either return to camp or a Waypoint location for additional saves. You can still do it 100 times if you want but you have to leave the region ... in essence, pulling you out of the action. It becomes a choice; "do I use a short rest to save? Leave and come back? Or, roll the dice and take what comes?"

Or, we just leave it alone? If we start to redesign a game every time someone says "but that's open to abuse", we'll never get a game. This is a perfect example, I won't be "scumming" saves, but I will be saving just as I have since games with saves were made. I can remember when there was no such thing, or where autosaves were the only options. I think saving during combat is a bad thing, so I don't do it. However, how many here complaining about that loved Skyrim? You could, after all, save during combat, I've seen videos where people did it. Regardless, if I'm not save scumming, and Joe Normal is, how is that affecting my game? If we're not playing MP, it's not affecting me at all. Can they make it where we can't save during combat? I'm sure they can, others have. Is it necessary? No. From where I'm sitting, this topic is a whole lot of "but someone might do better at x than me because they "cheated" to do it", but if we're all tooling along in SP, it doesn't matter in the least bit what they managed to do. Some people love to use mods, but I don't. How many threads have I started insisting that mods have no business in games? None. Because it doesn't affect me, unless we're playing MP together. In that instance, if they're using mods, and I'm not, I can just quit that game, and look for another, or just play SP.

I agree that "it's open to abuse" is a bad reason to change something in a singleplayer game. Free saving and such is an important quality of life that I don't think a lot of people would want it gone. Being able to pick up and put down a game at your leasuire will allow more people to experience more of a game.

However, I think the underlying point of people complaining about save scumming isn't to take away that being able to save/reload is the main problem, but that elements of the game encourage people to play in such a way. I can't remember seeing much fuss about save scumming in, for example, Dragon Age or the Pillars of Eternity and I suspect it has a lot to do with the player not having to roll dice after dice in conversations with less than ideal chances of success and very harsh outcomes.

People that want "perfect" outcomes are going to reload anyway, even if they have to go back x amount of time to do so. So the only way to prevent it is to remove the ability to save. It's a bit funny to me, because it's a non-issue in so far as I'm concerned, because the idea wouldn't occur to me. In the first rounds of my testing this, I had some rather negative outcomes, and yet, instead of thinking I had to get it "right" the first time, I played it out to see where it goes. It's what I've always done, and what I'll always do. It's odd that people that are dead set against something are always the ones that have a list of how "it's open to abuse", and let's not kid ourselves, that's the motivation behind trying to get this "fixed". Someone might get a desirable outcome w/out going through what someone else did, in a SP game. It's none of my business how someone else chooses to play their SP game. If we're in an MMO, and it can adversely affect me, then I'm all over preventing it from happening. Here? If it's not a MP game, then it's going to have no impact on me whatsoever. In fact, I may not even be aware that someone else did something, let alone how. Of all the complaints I've read on these forums, this is the least troublesome one. In fact, it's irrelevant to the bulk of my experience.