Originally Posted by Maximuuus
But this will still devalue a lot of things that grants advantage in DnD.

What happen today ? Highground and you does not care being targetted, with disadvantage you're god.
What will happen if advantage for highground is kept ? Highground but each turn we'll go away of the cliff to break the ennemy's lign of sight. New tedious tactics.

Whatever : still running for highground because it gives you the best and necessary bonus not to miss too often (even if your suggestion is obviously less broken than now).

Personally, I'm still in the camp that I want advantage/disadvantage from verticality removed completely. I thought MrFuji's proposal was fun to think about and I wanted to share my perspective on that. If those thoughts happen to make combat better on release, I'll be happy.

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Dragonsnooz
According to me the real question is "If the dices have been changed twice because players missing attacks might be anti-fun, then why isn't the ennemy's AC reduced?"
That's the only goal of ennemie's AC. Lower AC wouldn't have ANY consequences except that we'll miss less often. If missing is the problem just reduce the AC... Problem solved.
Am I wrong ? Is there something I'm not thinking of related to AC ?
The truest response to this is that changing enemy AC is a lever to control on how difficult the DM wants the encounter to be.
High ground advantage and low ground disadvantage affect both the player and enemies adding a chaotic factor (or distortionary, variable factor) to combat design. Resulting in lop-sided combat outcomes. (with no change to aggregate difficulty).

When we're talking about AC we are talking about survivability so in conjunction with HP we can deduce a statistic of "turns-to-kill". High ground advantage reduces turns-to-kill and low ground disadvantage increases turns-to-kill.

AC adjustments are a good thing for DMs to consider as they are static, and there are spells to counter high AC enemies (crowd control or saving-throw damage). It's something the player can react to on the fly. Lowering AC can bring in normally tougher enemies to make the situation more immersive or exciting. Or, as brought up before with analyzing goblin stats, you can make a more consistent turn-to-kill by lowering AC and increasing HP.

Verticality is different, a player will enter a fight and see enemies on high ground and their characters on the low ground and rationalize "forget this, I'll reload and reposition". Or maybe, "Yeah I'll spend several turns focused on moving my characters around and chugging potions". Neither of which are engaging decisions. Again this did not impact difficulty but directly affects how the player spends their time. (The mechanic is essentially a chore for the player, just as exciting as washing dishes).

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Advantages in BG3 devalue conditions, spells,..

- Advantage/disadvantage should stay an "advanced" technique...

- Giving the best bonuses just by going higher or going behind just don't allow anything interresting for higher difficulty levels...?
We agree on these for the most part and have had fruitful discussions on this in the past.
smile