Originally Posted by Trix Salamonde
Originally Posted by Etruscan
I haven't played since November of last year but I certainly felt the Rogue class didn't feel quite 'right' or specialised enough, at least compared to previous D&D CRPGs. It's always been one of my go-to classes to play so I was a little disappointed at their implementation. Maybe it's just 5e, maybe its Larian, I don't know...

Yes, it could well be 5E, I'm not sure. My rules familiarity stops at 3.5

5e rogues are heavy into Utility, which Larian's effort into the environment should make pretty interesting, but in general for combat a lot of Rogue is positioning and attacking.

Combat stuff is mostly:

- Cunning Action - Hide, Dash, Disengage as bonus actions - Currently in BG3 hide is a bonus action for everyone, I tend to think that should be a Rogue thing only. (Rangers I think might get it at higher levels, actually)
- Sneak Attack - Usable once per turn (so should be able to trigger on Opportunity attacks too)
- Uncanny Dodge - Defensive, use your reaction to reduce an attack by half
- Evasion - Defensive, works as it did in 3.X
- Blindsense - Detect invisible things within 10ft
- Slippery Mind - Proficiency in Wisdom saving throws
- Elusive - No attacks have advantage against you unless you're incapacitated.
- Stroke of Luck - Turn a miss into a hit (level 20 ability)

So a lot of Rogue combat is very basic and stuff that is passive or defensive. Though with bonus action dashes and disengages, you are going to be all over the map.

Where they shine is the massive number of skills, Expertise and things like Reliable Talent (if you have proficiency in a skill any roll on that skill less than 10 is treated as a 10, yes, this includes natural 1s.. so from level 11 on, Rogues no longer get natural 1s on skills they are proficient in.)

A lot of the subclasses are geared toward exploration and interaction as well.

Assassin has some combat stuff but is mostly geared toward long-term infiltration. Assassin's combat stuff is mostly first round only
Thief lets you disarm, lockpick, sleight of hand, or use object as bonus actions, so you'd be able to open stuff in combat and still fight, or disarm traps... or set traps if Larian lets us do that....
Arcane Trickster adds the most diversity since you get spells though even here it's mostly Illusion and Enchantment so less of the combat stuff.

going into other subclasses

Scout gives you increased mobility and some other benefits
Mastermind, Inquisitive, and Swashbuckler make it easier to use your sneak attack, but still it's you using sneak attack

Phantom and Psiblade probably add the most variety to combat.

Even their utility stuff is basically "lots of skills which I almost never fail at" but given the variety of skills that covers a lot of ground. You could build a Rogue as anything from an adventuring scholar to a police investigator.

But yeah... Rogue on tabletop is sort of a utility god with reliable but not exciting combat options.

Larian's approach to heavy environmental interactivity makes this a feasible playstyle. Though I would like them to make Hide a bonus action ONLY for rogues (and possibly high level Rangers... I think they get that ability).

Even then the benefit of rogue is basically "I can do this stuff other characters do, but I can do more things, and I only rarely ever fail". So it's still not going to look too stand out on first glance.

Their power is that sort of easily overlooked bit you get from "lots of bonuses/passives"

Last edited by Thrythlind; 27/07/21 02:03 AM.