Originally Posted by Topgoon
Agreed. Here's my breakdown of the biggest problems with Shove as it is, in Patch 6, and my proposals to solve it.


Problem 1: it's a 100% no brainer move to use for 80% of characters in melee. It's so cheap action-wise that you should almost always use it - and that's a problem. Even ignoring the chance of success and high lethality, the zero opportunity means it's just a thing to do, as opposed to a strategic choice the player makes.

Fix: make it a attack (note, not a full action) per PnP. This means martials with Extra attack will eventually be actually be able to shove multiple times with 1 action (trading an attack each time). The reason why I like this more than the full action is it lets Shove scale with martials better (so it doesn't become irrelevant, see Fix #2 and 3), but nerf it in the earlier levels when it can have most impact.


Problem 2: Stealth interactions with Shove is broken. This one is straight forward. Stealth/Invisible + Shove should not make shove a 100% success, especially with how easy it is to abuse.

Fix: remove or nerf stealth to shove bonus.


Problem 3: It's currently too lethal on success due to an incomplete system implementation. Larian's already taken a right step in terms of reducing the chance of shove success, but because of #1 and #2, it still dominates the game.

Fix: Implemented a proper reaction system + proper Feather Fall, where it's a reaction (to falling). Lastly, cap fall damage to 10d6 per the rules. This gives more counter-play to shoving (for the player and AI), and also ensures people with the right skills and beefy characters can't just be outright killed by fall damage.

Couple of minor clarifications:
1. Shove is an attack in the PHB not an action so that wouldn't even be changing anything.
2. The maximum fall damage is 20d6, not 10d6.