Agreed, and what really annoyed me about this questline is how heavy handedly Larian's writers railroad the player into supporting the Tieflings and turning against ALL the druids except Rath (that most tiresome of politically correct entities, the "noble majestic Black") and Halsin.

This IS a real life situation; because it's an example of how people are manipulated by media. Also if you've lived in Larian's Germany, you would realize that the Tieflngs here in this game (as opposed to Tieflings in D&D in general!) are stand ins for a real world Europe's despised and self excluded real world groups, particularly Europe's Roma (Gypsies).

Has anyone noticed that "the Druids" have and are providing the Tieflings with already scarce food as well as shelter from the Tiefs numerous enemies, only to be rewarded with theft of multiple items, including the "Idol" of Silvanus. It's an "idol", they're idol worshipping Pagans, they don't value an "effigy" or another more neutrally named entity.

Those Tieflings would have been slaughtered by goblinoids or hostile Humanoids were it not for the Druids' succor, and what do the Druids get in return for their charity and protection for criminal ingrates? We are repeatedly reminded that the Tieflings "would be slaughtered outside the Grove, because they are not fighters". To conceal the glaringly obvious fact that the Tieflings owe their lives to Druid compassion, the writers have Zelvor lead the defenses when Aradin flees to the Grove for shelter, even though many Druids are not engaged in "the ritual" (including Kagha, Loie, Marcoryl, Rath, Apikusis, Arron), and realistically would immediately come to the defense of the Grove in response to the goblinoid attack! Duuuuhhhh...


We are repeatedly presented with uber "humanized" Tieflings who love their families, squabble over familiar matters, and are friendly and welcoming fashionable "victims". A tiefling bard on the periphery of the grove delights us with an autobiographical account of her relationship with her teacher, and charms us with her as yet unpolished musical skills. Zevlor, their leader, is calm, noble, and the perfect "noble victim".

I completely missed the Mol and Thefling Hideout subplot when playing with patch 3, and only found it after reading a walkthrough. Nor did patch 3 Mattis and her accomplices steal anything from my Wizard, they only tried to sell useless items with non existent magical properties. I rescued Mino from his attempted robbery of the Harpy nest (but those Harpies stole first!) only to uncover the hideout, and the classic "child thief ring" was lacking only an apparent adult leader. When I tried to kill the child thieves, they proved unkillable, but very eventually reacted by threatening my PC with retaliation from their leader (broken/unfinished quest?). Just outside the hideout entrance, Arabella's loving, concerned parents were chastising their regrettably rescued daughter by louding berating her thieving over and over again non stop; are we to believe that in an entrenched subculture of childhood criminality, they were so naive and pure that they were utterly clueless that their daughter was already a long term career criminal?

The druids are pompous, self righteous, and speak in annoying nasal, geeky voices (Marcoryl, Loie), keep servants, are cold, hostile, and standoffish (a successful persuasion check with Apikusis, who most players only remember only as "the girl with the bird", reveals her hinted misgivings over the absence of Halsin, but most players are intentionally put off by her initial standoffishness and seeming coldness, and don't pursue the inquiry further). None of the Druids have children, and none appear to be married or in relationships, while thieving Tiefling children are present everywhere outside the sacred grove. Thus we don't need to worry about killing or orphaning non existent druidic children (unkillable or otherwise) or breaking druidic hearts if we have fun slaughtering Druids! Even the goblins have very cute but unredeemably malicious children who players can kill (encouraged by Wyll's thirst for "frontier justice" against other races). Moreover, given D&D's persistent trope about rapidly breeding Goblins that quickly overrun places they inhabit, it's odd that Goblin children are so rare in this game! But who cares, those Druids must be dull, sexless celibates (not part of D&D lore!) unlike that oh so hot Minthara who spreads her legs for us if we kill off Druids! It's so much fun to wipe out groups with differing religious beliefs from our own; let's make it even more enticing and rewarding!

Nettie, who under the surface is arguably the most honorable, dignified and level headed character in the game, is set up so that unless the player makes the correct and polite dialogue choices, she will attempt to poison him/her, thus triggering the writers' desired murderous or hostile response from the player. Should you speak politely and respectfully with her after you have railroaded into being dissed by the loudmouth dwarven druid guards and their bear so that you are thus more likely to choose the hostile dialog options with Nettie, you will find that she not only does not try to poison your Tav, but is willing to believe your word of honor that you will commit suicide if CONVENTIONAL ceremorphosis insues, both to spare yourself the agonies of transformation, and to prevent turning OTHERS into mindflayers or eating their brains as well.

The game reminds us, repeatedly and luridly, what conventional ceremorphosis involves: "excruciating agony"(Gale), "sundering skin and liquifying guts" (that charming devil), "worms eating us from within" (ad nauseam, from Shadowheart), "worms eating our brains out" (Astarion). Nettie, from her research with Halsin (she's a level headed proto scientist, not a frenzied unstable self obsessed emotion driven narcissist like Astarion) is the first character to point out to our PC that this does not appear to be conventional ceremorphosis, because "something" is altering or stopping the process, and because suddenly dozens of Mindflayer victims are turning up. She offers her knowledge to our Tav with the very responsible request that they spare themselves the risk of harming others if worse comes to worst and they start showing symptoms of conventional ceremorphosis.

Then there is Kagha, who is little more than a one dimensional plot device to further incite players against "the druids". She is a self righteous harsh featured (too bad, I found her far more attractive than blandly featured Shadowheart, or wicked witch Minthara, and so did my High Elf Druid Tav) stereotypical bitch as well as a misanthropic tree hugger (a stereotype that is too often painfully common in the REAL WORLD), representing every cliche available to set up the player to kill her, even more than obsessive player railroader Gaider's Keeper Zathrian. The cutesy sugar coated anthropomorphism of the Grove's non Humanoid inhabitants contrasts jarringly with Kagha's fierce stewardship of her Grove; the latter is a very realistic depiction of the harsh and usually merciless realities of "nature", those cute fluffy Wolves, bears, etc (the alpha females of which are in reality as obsessed with their social staus and power as Kagha) are not.

Players won't even discover that Kagha is a secret Shadow Druid unless they read a walkthrough, or open her conveniently non red chest and read its' contents. Somehow, other items that reveal historical and mundane Grove lore are red, and a stuffy snotty Druid will warn you against stealing them to read!

Kagha of course uses a viper to terrorize and potentially kill a thieving Tiefling child (Arabella), thus capitalizing on the Human player's REAL WORLD partially innate aversion to all snakes, to make her even more hateful. Not for us is the gristly mauling of children by a large predatory mammal such as a Tiger, or their trampling by an elephant, even though this happens to hundreds of children annually in nations outside of Europe that have not decimated their large, dangerous, and agriculture incompatible megafauna like Europe. Isolated from the often horrific real world consequences of living alongside Tigers (they're viewed in the developed West as great big beautiful moggies) and elephants (viewed as majestic gentle giant herbivores, bulls in the testosterone fueled hyperaggression of musth are misrepresented as having toothaches or seeking vengeance on Humans for poaching), these animals are not viewed as evil like serpents by players who overwhelmingly have a developed Western world perspective. No, we need a VIPER, a primally and innately terrifying animal, that unrealistically assumes the warning posture of an unrelated cobra displaying its' hood, and which engages in the mouth contortions of a snake with advanced mouth rot, while perceiving airborne speech that real vipers are incapable of hearing, much less understanding, because their "language" is chemical, thermal, and visual!


The cinematic that plays if you confront Kagha about her Shadow Druid affiliation is unintentionally hilarious; but underlines the fact that these 'racist' Druids include Gnomes, Halflings, Elves, Half Elves, and Humans of diverse subraces and ethnicities, while those "racism victimized" Tieflings include only Asmodeus and Mephistopheles Tieflings! It's also nearly meaningless, since after relentlessly steering the player into hating ir despising and attacking the Druids, the writers have also dangled the baits of idol theft, mass killing of a different religious group, riches from pillaging, and best of all, brief sex with a Drow hottie, to even more effectively encourage criminal and antisocial behavior!

Are so many people this clueless as to how they are manipulated and railroaded, in BOTH real and fantasy worlds? Or that the best fantasy bears enough resemblance to reality to be relatable?

Last edited by Natureboy; 05/01/22 07:48 PM.