It's simple. If this game at any point makes players feel bad and not have fun, it's doing a bad job. Games are meant to be fun.
I wonder if anybody ever made a good game ... Including times before computer games ...
Cant find any.
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Regardless of how many people might enjoy a certain element, if it has a lot of potential to make players feel guilty or feel bad, they should come up with another solution.
I believe they did, you listed some of those youreself.
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ah, but then again, here lies the real life dilemma. What is more cruel? Knock out the kids but kill their entire tribe, or just kill the kids with their families so they don't wake up and discover their all alone?
Indeed sweet, sweet moral question. The only problem is that you dont *need* to kill their entire tribe ... you can only choose to, just as with everything else in this game.
Just the same way as you knock out those kids, you can knock out litteraly anyone else aswell. :P
Also, there are ways to kill just leaders and dont even cause alarm. And yes, all 3 ... even tho it require huge metagaming, will to use almost every gimmick(?) Larian provided, and also you will loose all your loot. Anyway: Here is video guide. :P
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I suppose you could play total pacifist and kill no one, but that would solve nothing. The goblins are hard core fanatics of the Absolute and just love to kill. They're not going to leave people alone if you let them live.
This is simply not true ... If you knock out whole Goblin camp, and kill just Ragzlin, MInthara and Gut ... all your quests will mark as complete, and no futher attack ever happens ... once you long rest they will all disappear. :P
I mean even from story perspective ... sure, Goblins are fanatics ... but they are also cowards, and when they will see on their own eyes that group of FOUR (wich kinda means that they were outnumbered in aproximately 10:1 ratio) adventurers decimated their whole army and killed their "Goddesschosen leaders" ... they will dig so deep to the ground so nobody will hear about them ever again.
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Just remove the kids from the setting and it wouldn't be so bad. End of story.
If we start removing things that could potentialy insult, or trigger someone ... We can aswell just go play Pony Adventure Quest.
Originally Posted by GM4Him
In order to save Halsin, you are confronted with killing kids
Eh ... no, you are are not. Its an option, but hardly anything more. :P
Either you can let them run (and have consequences) ... or you can let Halsin kill them (sure, they are dead, but your hands are clean of this particular crime) ... or you can kill them ... also, using a bit of metagaming, you can ignore this scene (room) whole and you will never learn their fate. :P
Originally Posted by GM4Him
It's not fun playing a game that makes you feel guilty. Period.
Then dont ... also period. :P
Originally Posted by GM4Him
As long as you have a legit choice, that's not a problem, but with the goblin kids, you have to kill them or they bring reinforcements, and knockout is more cruel than death.
Oh but there IS a choice ... you just listed two of your many options. Sure, kinds will bring reinforcements ... but that is the ugly side of every choice, they tend to have consequences.
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Originally Posted by Zarna
or someone who hates thieves and wants to see them all executed or is following orders in a combat situation
Oh yes, orders ... the oldest excuse in the world.
I believe the problem (and core reason for this topic to exist) is that if you are the character you are describing here (Tiefling hater) ... you have no way to harm those kids, no matter how much s/he would want to ... bcs its not morally corect to harm a child no matter how evil, twisted and sadistic character you play. But once you enter goblin camp, you can litteraly slaughter whole groups (there are 2) of childern with no real reason at all (you dont even need to talk to them, just can just start shooting out of noting).
That was the original point ... Either allow us to attack both, or none ... but dont make system differences just bcs you want us to hate one side and simpatize with the other ... its cheap, its lame, and we dislike it. :P
Originally Posted by Zarna
Maybe they could change it so they run out a side tunnel instead of getting reinforcements? Just throwing out ideas that should give options for both the kill and no kill types. I do not care one way or the other personally.
I dislike this option honestly ... I mean its kinda honorable from certain point of view to *not harm* childern, no matter how bloodthirsty, twisted and sadistic they are ... and i bet my Paladin (once aviable) will think about this question a lot ...
But still our choices should have consequences ... removing those just so you can play your Goldstar and whole camp of bloodthirsty Goblins is not standing in your way seems to me like choice just as poor as making Tieflings kids imortal ... After all, lets be honest for a second ... those reinforcements are shit anyway, you kill them in two rounds top.
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Originally Posted by MrToucan
Conflict is the core of storytelling. Characters in stories face obstacles and setbacks, and they have to make hard decisions and sacrifices. Otherwise, there is no story. Feeling bad, conflicted, uncertain is necessary, because you cannot have release without building up tension first. Even children's entertainment, which by its nature skews towards more simplistic morality, will have plotlines and ask questions that can upset its target audience.
That bird is right. :3 +1!
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
