I know this comment was posted in 2019, but I just had to comment on it!

Originally Posted by Sordak
Turn based combat is a better system and i dont think there is even an argument of the contrary to be made.
RTWP is a terrible system that leads to Basic attacks following a turn based models while spells are cast in real time, this leads to an even stronger case of caster supremacy, one of the prime problems with non 4E DnD.

To assert that no argument of the contrary can be made is indicative of your narrow-mindedness on the topic. And you have no reasonable grounds to assume that RTWP leads to a stronger case of caster supremacy, either. Spells can't be casted at any time, and you completely ignore the disadvantages of casters in a RTWP environment. For example, you have to be able to time your AOE attacks in RTWP at the right moment, since everybody is moving in real time. In a turn-based system, you do not have to do this.

Originally Posted by Sordak
But to entertain the point a bit more.
RTWP simply is a combat system that is very unrewarding and leads itself to lazy encounter design. In an RTWP system, the player never has to commit to any plan of action, instnatly beeing able to cancel any descision and change it for somehting else, it leads to a lot of frantic pausing.
It also invalidates the initiative system from DnD and will lead to a devaluation of one of the primary stats.

Very unrewarding? To who? You? I find it rewarding, as do many others. It's more immersive, it's more chaotic, it's more unpredictable. The last two happen to make it, overall, a more difficult system. I also fail to see how it is a "lazy encounter design". Lazy in what way? I'd love to hear an explanation on this one.

Originally Posted by Sordak
The only reason people like RTWP is because of some conservative clinging to the Infinity engine games. Temple of Elemental Evil is the most accurate implementation of any DnD system into a video game engine to date and it used turn based combat. of course it also was a broken mess and took years of modding to make it play properly, and thats why the system was never adopted.
Think of it that way. Did the Infinity engine games play like the gold Box games? no they didnt.
So why should future DnD games be held back by past glorioes, Larian isnt even using the same base ruleset as infinity engine games.

I think it's remarkably ignorant to assume there is only one reason why RTWP is liked. You were given a multitude of reasons. You're just not being receptive to any other point of view because you want to be "right".

Originally Posted by Sordak
Furthermore, look at the companies that keep making these kinds of games. Beamdog has basically dug up the corpse of baldurs gate and implemented a bunch of thingst hat already existed as free mods, and to add insult to injury made it impossible to buy the original verison of the game anywhere.
and then theres PoE by Obsidian, a game series that since has also implemented Turn based combat because quite frankly its a better system.
You dont go around stealing ideas from failed competitors. They failed for a reason. Both of these companies wanted to make BG3, and WOTC shut them down because they couldnt move past their own nostalgia goggles.

Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity implemented turn-based combat not because it is a better system, but because they wanted to give people options. Your statement is a classic case of confirmation bias. They started with RTWP for a reason. Also, Obsidian almost created Baldur's Gate III back in 2008 when Atari had rights. They were close to signing a deal, but it fell apart last minute because Atari was bought Nameco. They then tried to reach out again to Wizards of the Coast, but WOTC turned them down. It had nothing to do with the RWTP combat mechanic, either. In fact, Larian Studios reached out to Wizards of the Coast once before, and Wizards of the Coast rejected them after they developed Divinity I; they stated that Larian didn't have enough credibility. Which is the same reason Obsidian got rejected, as they had mostly new developers that WOTC didn't recognize. It was basically a different company. I am willing to bet that if WOTC witnessed Pillars of Eternity II before giving Larian Studios rights to Baldur's Gate, they would have chosen Obsidian. Of course, Larian Studios then reached out again after Divinity II, and they were accepted. Again, it had nothing to do with the combat mechanics, and more-so to do with the credibility of the company. Another classic case of confirmation bias on your part.

Originally Posted by Sordak
The fear of creating new types of gameplay comes from a certain kind of game. Tripple A RPGs, Skyrim, Fallout 4 and the like are known to "dumb down" games. And this is correct. But does OS2 look dumbed down compared to any other CRPG?
The fear is unfounded

How is it that you can assert that real-time combat is "dumbed down"? Real-time combat requires faster thinking and faster reaction times. Also, games like Skyrim don't even have a targeting system. It makes no sense to claim that real-time combat is "dumbed down". This is just a patently absurd statement to make. Utterly ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Sordak
And to put a Bandaid on all of that. IF, and i don think it will be that way, but IF we get a turn based System, im 90% sure well get an RTWP option.
OS2s engine already allows to attack and cast outside of combat. Turns already are associated with a number of seconds in the game engine.
If they use the same combat system, theyll sureley implement RTWP as an option to satiate the Nostalgic Boomer Fans.

And now you're just hurling ad-hominem attacks here. Nostalgic Boomer Fans? Real-time combat systems aren't just a product of nostalgia. In fact, it is turn-based that is old-school, seeing as how these games stem from tabletop games, which require taking turns. With the introduction of a computer, we can move past turn-based, and do real-time combat, which happens to be more immersive and realistic. Yes, it has a pause function, as all games do. But it is definitely more realistic than enemies sitting around doing nothing when you're right by them, because they have to "wait for their turn", even when the game isn't paused.

Your argument is a perfect example of what narrow-mindedness and ignorance look like.

Last edited by USPatriot; 16/01/22 11:39 AM.