Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by GM4Him
They fly and throw stones.
Imersion no longer suits us?

I mean it makes perfect sense doesnt it? They have hands -> they can throw things. And there is plenty rocks around.

It's not about immersion, RagnarokCzD. It's about using the harpies' Creator-Given combat mentality and tactics.

Imagine running into a pack of wolves that didn't attack as a pack. That's what most of the creatures are like in BG3. They don't behave as their creature race says they should.

Here's how harpies should act. One sings. Maybe one or two characters are charmed. The rest of the harpies swarm down and attack the charmed one before they uncharm. They land within melee range and begin to use claws and their club, two attacks per turn in melee combat, to try to kill the charmed one.

Or, as an alternative, they DON'T attack the charmed one(s) for they are making their way slowly towards the singing one. They instead focus on bashing and slashing the ones NOT charmed to try to finish them off either before the charmed ones break the charm or they reach the singing harpy who then starts wailing on them.

Two attacks, one with claws and one with club, have much more damage potential than throwing stones from a distance, and it's far less annoying to not have to chase after them across the board, climbing higher and higher to try to get on even ground with them. They instead drop down to you and pummel your characters at close range. 3 out of the 4 harpies, if not all 4, should surround you and beat you. When you break out of one harpy's song, another starts to sing to charm you again.

Trust me, that would be a tough fight, and it wouldn't be nearly as annoying as chasing after them up the cliffside just so you can get on the same level as them so you don't get a -2 to hit them.

My point is that Larian is trying to make more options for combat. That's what they've said their goal is, or so I thought they said this anyway. However, all they are really doing is stripping D&D 5e options and making them obsolete, and then they are creating their own that you can spam, or HAVE to spam, over and over again.

So, instead of simply Attack, now you must get on even ground with your opponents and/or higher ground so you can hit better. Trading one option for another, honestly more annoying, option.

In Solasta, height isn't as big of a deal. Cover provides +2 to target AC for Ranged Attacks, but height doesn't. So, I'm not constantly fighting to get to higher ground than my opponents. I need to work to get into better position maybe, because they've got cover, but I'm not fighting with winged harpies just to get on an even playing field so I can hit them WHEN THEY CAN FLY.

Over and over again, in just about every scenario of the game, you have to strive to get higher. At least, thank God, they got rid of height advantage, but it's still there with the +2 AC/+2 to Hit. So, goblins, spiders, drow, duergar, harpies... pretty much everything in the game, is constantly trying to "Get to the high ground."

And that is my point. Can we have some variety? D&D is FULL of various monsters all with different attack strategies and abilities. If you're using harpies, make them swarm PCs. Let them use their multiattack abilities to claw and club people.

Imagine Gale, Wyll, Lae'zel and Tav on the beach. Harpy sings. Gale fails. Wyll fails. You have Lae'zel and Tav. 3 Harpies swoop down and surround you. That's 6 attacks in one round. They swarm Gale. In one round, Gale is on the ground bleeding out. Tav is a cleric and heals Gale to get him back on his feet. Lae'zel attacks one harpy with Menacing Attack. Success! Harpy is scared. She uses Action Surge and attacks again. Menacing Attack succeeds. 2 Harpies scared.

Round 2. Wyll starts moving towards the singing harpy. Attacks of opportunity. One of the harpies is close to Wyll and gets a free hit. Wyll is alive, but he's lost 6 HP. He snaps out of it because the damage done to him allows him to reroll his Save. Wyll's back in action. He Eldritch Blasts the first harpy Lae'zel attacked. She goes flying backwards because he has the knockback ability (forgot what it's called right now). A new harpy sings. Lae'zel is now entranced and so is Wyll. Dang!

But Gale is free, and there are two harpies near him that he could attack with Burning Hands. He positions himself to hit both and fires. Ah! Satisfying damage. They both failed. Then they soundly bash and slash him again. This time, it only takes one of them. The other goes after Tav to try to take her down while her companions are charmed. Smash and slash. Tav is hit once. 8 HP off. Tav is forced to heal Gale again. She can't attack because she's struggling to keep her allies alive. Lae'zel makes her way towards the singing harpy. So does Wyll. The harpy that Wyll blasted is scared, so she can't even make her way up to the PC's. NOW it would make sense to have her pick up a stone and throw it as an Improvised Weapon.

Round 3. Wyll doesn't snap out of his charm. He walks right up to the harpy that is singing. "Ah, sweet music." Since he is so close, the harpy can't resist. Let's see how Tav does trying to revive 2 fallen allies. The harpy bashes and slashes Wyll, reducing him to 0 HP. Gale is up, though, and he's bringing his magic back to try to help save Tav. Thunderwave! Both harpies go flying into the river. Lae'zel snaps out of her charm. She rushes the harpy Wyll sent flying. It's already weak. If she can finish it... She rushes up and hacks at it with Menacing Attack. SUCCESS! The harpy dies. Only 3 more to go. Tav runs up to Wyll and heals him. DANG! Tav's really being put to work! Guess it was good to have a cleric around, eh? The harpies return. Wyll and Gale are both taken down by one harpy a piece because, you know, they get two attacks each with club and claw, and Tav can't heal that much each time. The third one goes for Tav. One hit and one miss.

Hmmm. Actually, this fight sounds too tough for a party of 4, doesn't it? Maybe they should allow us to have a Party of 6 instead. smile