Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback (Patch 9) On identity and whether it's even worth having in its existing form

This is a setting where people would judge the book by its cover, there is no Internet, no pronoun pins, no globalized cultural values - if anything, were there appearance options to actually make an androgynous-looking character, then it'd make a lot more sense and will work a lot better as a concept (say, a masculine-enough looking male-identifying female character who is genuinely man-like in appearance, or a more feminine-looking male body - yes, the anime tropes, I know) - while what we do have is distinctly male and female models that leave no guesses as to what sex they are, and calling that "gender-independent appearance options" is ve-e-e-e-e-ry generous - at most you could - from the beginning, no less! - apply makeup to a man (the "femininity" of which as a concept differs from culture to culture) or slap a beard on a woman (which could either be read as a developmental anomaly or it's just a dwarf lady) - not on an elf, though. Clothing/underwear doesn't change at all either, so you cannot have, say, male versions of armors on a female model or vice versa - for obvious technical reasons, but the point stands.

I highly doubt that those knockers and those shoulders will leave any bystander actually uncertain as to whether or not they see a male or a female - they clearly don't when you have your character, your companions, and the narrator gendering everything and everyone else based on looks alone - how do they know how the three Chosen, or the mind-controlled cultists, identify without asking them first or probing their minds for it (which does kinda sound like a very sketchy concept when it comes to dealing with the appearance-identity dissonance)? But the player character is somehow always referred to with the chosen pronouns, no matter the context. Why would, for example, Shadowheart, in a moment, say "they" instead of "he" or "she" referring to the PC without ever being prompted to do so, but never once address anyone else as "they"? Lae'zel, effectively an alien, somehow recognizes the male and female characteristics of the Toril humanoids. Why is Gale being all gentlemanly with Shadowheart from the get-go, despite never learning how she identifies - and you could argue that her armor gives her vague enough of a silhouette?

How would anyone just know in a world that, while it has polymorph magic (the whole point of which with the subject at hand in mind is specifically becoming differently perceived, going back to the "judging by the cover" argument, and it opens a whole other drawer of problematic concepts with the ability to assume an appearance of a different race and use that with ulterior motives in mind...) and deities who can manifest however they feel like (they are, well, gods, and it's not exactly a novel idea given how some of the real pantheons look in that regard), is a relatively grounded high-fantasy setting where a good percentage of people, realistically, wouldn't even be literate, let alone not regularly struggling with everyday matters (wars, famine, climate, class-based and sex-based oppression), where nobility is overly obsessed with preserving their bloodlines, where certain cultures have certain expectations and traditions, where there are races which either come in one or neither sex (the hags/nymphs/dryads are all female, and somehow I doubt they'd be questioning their identity despite the chaotic nature of the fey because they specifically utilize their feminine appearance and the recognition of themselves as such both by them and by others as means to an end. Illithids are effectively hermaphrodites, referred to as "it" or sometimes addressed as male because of - again! - their masculine appearance, and so are the beholders, who only call their colony mothers that to honour the mage lady that tore them out of Mechanus), and where religion is heavily intertwined with quite a few societies - like the duergar and their heavily meritocratic cult of Laduguer, or the Menzoberranzan drow. Even the less faith-bound communities would be mostly down-to-earth and with an expectation of "normalcy" exisitng with them.

Adventurers being the odd men (women) out who contradict the norms and the setting being restructured to accomodate that because, rather than make relatively grounded characters that fit into the world (even if non-conforming in some way as part of their character, but with there being reasoning and understanding of where things stand with said non-conforming), players would instead create whatever they pull out of their backside or whatever they want to self-insert as is not a role-playing practice I ever understood, honestly. And what about when the origin characters become available? Will their identity be subject to switching also, if somebody headcanons, say, Karlach, as identifying as male? Will every line where she was ever addressed as female changed too, adding even more rewriting work and extra voiceover to do for this one gimmick that has no impact outside of others addressing the character? I would argue that having an allegedly dooming medical condition that you desperately need to find a cure for is hardly the time to be concerned about what you are perceived as by others and your survival instinct ought to override most other things, but it's probably considered "hate speech"...

Heck, if it's all about presentation and perception, then the game already used to have the "male" and "female" tags displayed in the character sheet (then hidden a patch or two later, which was as much a cause for an exhausted sigh on my part as was seeing that instead of improved customization options and fixed hair colours we got two heads total and an identity selector...) that specifically said that you "are perceived as others as a male/female of one of the races" or something to that extent, and we already have the Disguise Self spell which allows us to present in a different way. Polymorph Self could serve as an actual opportunity to do a complete makeover of the character. There being more situations where chosen race and sex matter would make for a far deeper roleplaying experience compared to simply chalking it all up to "identity". Let Mayrina be more at ease and open with a female character. Have Oskar, obnoxious as he is, confide in a male one. Have misogynous and misandric characters and allow the player to respond to them appropriately. Have people who are actually attracted to specifically male or female or either characters. Divinity II: Flames of Vengeance had a gender-bender theater quest that required you to use the polymorph services, so this could be the way to expand on that idea. The idenitity could still be there, but be the character's (and, perhaps, their companions', who'd address them as they wish) business - and if being misgendered prompts them to press that attack button, let it be part of the character being played. Or add a line correcting whoever misgenders you into every dialogue that can happen in. Probably not happening. Again, highlighting how such an implementation lacks actual impact in terms of role-playing and making it both offensive to people who don't want it in their games and such and potentially disappointing to those that do - though, again, someplace like Tumblr is positively climaxing (sorry) over it.