Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback This isn't Baldur's Gate

Feedback:

Some Positives

-The game is funny
-Excellent voice acting
-Lots of different choice branches that have meaningful/significant outcome differences
-5e offensive cantrips are really fun (I say this coming from 3.5)
-Lots of character creation options
-(Added 10/13/2020) Some really interesting and well written characters (the Pain Priest is awesome). Please don't bring back tired characters from previously in the series, you do well enough writing new ones.


Some Negatives
-Why are we suddenly restricted to 4 party members when the historical cap for the entirety of this game series has been 6? Why are we restricted to 4 party members when we are fighting looters and opposing adventuring parties of 6-7+ individuals who all have the same level?
-Why is the inventory and shopkeeper interface copied from Divinity Original Sin when this is a Baldur's Gate game?
-Why is there a scales button that tells the npc to pay with gold when giving my loot away for free literally has no foreseeable benefit to it? (again like reputation from Divinity) Thus I should be able to just sell my loot with 1 click because adding an extra button in w/o any benefit is REDUNDANT?
-Cant 1 click items over in shop (solved, you must DOUBLE CLICK)
-I find I have to click multiple times to get the item to snap to the cursor so I can drag it. Double click is kind of an intensive way to get items to port over to the barter table (just my opinion)
-Why do I have to click end turn for every single character that has the same initiative? I should just be able to expend their action points and click end turn and it ends turn for everyone involved.
-Why does spacebar wonkily choose player character dialogue options when I'm just trying to advance through npc dialogue that I've heard already? (Bug note: jittery flashing text on screen during dialogue sometimes results in wrong option being selected)
-Why are proficiency attribute modifiers subtracted from the roll threshold? If we get rid of 1 = automatic fail, and 1 becomes the threshold to beat in various instances because of proficiency, it is then impossible to fail, and thus, why do i need to roll on it?
-I personally think your chance to hit math needs work as I find a 75% chance to hit missing 7x in a row (to include two critical misses) to be statistically alarming.
-Please show us how hit is being calculated via a tooltip (added 10/11/2020)
-Why do I receive the same amount of xp for killing an OGRE as a goblin?!
-Even for early access the amount of crippling, game breaking bugs in the game is something between pathetic and shameful


Bug Report:

-The healer, Nettie or whatever. If you pass the initial skill checks and get a wyvern potion, immediately after, it will still proc skill checks (although different this time) and getting a wyvern potion (it is possible to get multiple wyvern potions this way). Furthermore, the tablets in the room will trigger that same conversation with her while she is still alive.
-Sometimes the loading screen just hangs indefinitely
-Sometimes NPC's have facial expressions and movement and sometimes they are statues (even while speaking)
-Lots of npc jerking in general
-I killed one of the chapel looters and he flew through the air and his body expanded to be about 100 feet in size after the ragdoll ended (same happened with goblins near SW entrance to abandoned town)
-Sometimes as warlock, summoning the familiar turns the entire party hostile to it (added 10/11/2020). It seems when this bug happens, the familiar is now considered permanently hostile and consecutive resummons just make the party enter combat again forcing a reload to a prior save.
-(Added 10/13/2020) Sometimes when clicking the end turn button, the sound happens, but i can still move my character around freely but he/she is unable to take any action but all other characters are locked in place. Turn button is then seemingly 'frozen' in place and is just an immobile graphic that cant be interfaced with
-(Added 10/13/2020) During the fight with the goblin priestess (the one branding everybody) she will on occasion turn and cast spells at the statue for no reason
-(Added 10/13/2020) Goblins will sometimes run to a drum that has already been destroyed and start banging on nothing
-(Added 10/13/2020) Sometimes (actually quite often) attacking from hiding stance will yield no actual action (I believe it may have something to do with npc dialogue interrupting the action before the animation is complete).
-(Added 10/13/2020) Goblins can shoot through walls, quite often.\
-I tried equipping a pair of f***ing gloves and the game crashed. Jesus christ.



Verdict...
As someone who's played D&D since their childhood, as well as every Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate game (i still have the BGII multiple disc set released in 2000) I have to say that you haven't made a Baldur's Gate game, you've made a Divinity Original Sin game.
This is quite concerning since you've stuck a III at the end of "Baldur's Gate."
(Added 10/11/2020) People (likely ones who never played the series) have asked me to justify why I think so, so here we go:
-Character creation screen is directly ripped from Divinity Original Sin
-You start on a Beach like Divinity
-You are capped to 4 party members... like Divinity
-No night cycle like Divinity (this is important because in Baldur's Gate 2 the night cycle was especially important considering thats when thieves and the like came out and tried to rob you.)
-Shop interface ripped directly from Divinity
-Map view (including icons) ripped directly from Divinity. They are literally the same.
-Map assets and textures in Act I the same as those from Beach/Fort Joy in Divinity
-Characters not in combat can freely walk around while party members that are in combat are locked to turns (again something not in BG. But it is... in Divinity)
-Characters cannot have alternate melee weapon sets like they did in older BG/Icewind Dale titles (yes it is useful for a warrior to go from 2h weapon to 1h weapon + shield in a lot of circumstances)
-Summoning items lack a placement area... This was a feature in all previous Baldur's Gate games and is a feature in core D&D

P.S.
-Putting Minsc in the game (or other legacy characters) is a contrived appeal to nostalgia like what Neverwinter Online did and overall detracts from a unique Forgotten Realms experience. The character is tired and honestly I would campaign for him to
not be put in... Besides isn't this 100 years later after the first game? That would make Minsc like 130 years old. The game is so unlike Baldur's Gate anyway that putting old characters in would give it even more of a Frankenstein feel.

This is the suggestions forum, not the "You better explain yourselves to me!" *pout* - forum. Turn those whys into shoulds! Thats why we are all here. The technical forum is probably better for the bug reports.

The shop system is annoying, it wasnt good in DOS2 either. I know they want person by person reputation but the reality is most people just pick a face and dump all their crap to them anyway. Either aggregate party rep or do away with it entirely. I dont haggle in the games I DM, its a waste of time and having the possibility of lost cash doesnt offset the sure thing of a normal transaction. Art and stuff, yeah go find a dealer if you want a high price. But, I doubt theyll get that deep with it (though it might be cool if they did). They do need a warning, because it is a mouse click away from a lot of lost money. The same with "shop" mode where you just buy it and that 200gp thing on their list was just 750 and you had no idea that was going to happen. Sell them back at a steep discount, of course,. Time to pickpocket!

Group initiative is annoying in single AND multiplayer, mainly because you don't know the state of the other character. My MP friends are either thinking, taking a pee, or I forgot to end my turn but for some reason the turn isnt ending.

Ive suggested prior to this that dialog and future response options all appear at once to avoid that. There isnt some spoiled reveal by letting me see the options as they talk. They like to zoom in on faces during the dialog portion, but I don't think much would be lost when this is the face your character makes when someone says they want you to be inside them (literally what they said) Sex Face.

The count down mechanic in general is dumb. High proficiency doesnt mean a lower DC. A DC 18 trap is a DC18 trap. You are getting someone who can roll high to do it. The joy of the dice is those high numbers, not just barely beating a low one.

The % chance is poorly explained and poorly executed. Im an 18 dex ranger with a +1 bow 20 feet from someone who is fully illuminated who has 14 ac and I have a 55% chance to hit them. Hovering over it does not explain why that is the case. at a +9 to hit I have to roll under a 5 to miss, with should have it be 75+% chance to hit. Cannot see why you are rolling low and you dont get shown green zones or anything where youd have the highest chance, which would be nice.

1. Wow the hate. Every Baldurs Gate game including this one is based off the pen and paper game. A standard party size is 4 players it's what the CR of every monster is. CR stands for challenge rating. As you add or subtract party members from the standard size it screws with the CR. It seems that Larian is trying to be TRUE to this in the way they are handling party size. It could also be there personal choice this has nothing to do with the name of the game being what it is. It's your opinion.

2. Again this is a game mechanic involving shopkeepers interface. Nothing to do with why any of the games where called Baldurs Gate. As for why it's something familair to them and so it is easier for them to code. And may be a preset for the gaming engine they use.

3. The scale gets him to give you the price as is set for what you pay, also for you to do the same. The barter button appears to be there to try and influence the cost. Much like in D&D your high ability/skill person can haggle with the shopkeeper using their ability scores and skills. (Unsure not been paying it much mind.) Also at times it simply steals your shit if you just press the barter button. again a fail safe maybe? (unsure)

4. double click item and it moves itself into the shop screen. Could be they were trying to make sure you actually wanted to sell this and it's a way of making sure you don't have to scroll over everything else you've bought to get back what you didn't want to sell in the first place.

5. I tend to believe this function is buggy at times it lets me move to the next person with the same initiative, other times it just skips over them.

6. Again possible bug/glitch as when I do it it sometimes shows the options then another line of npc's speech, then the options again. Also avoidable if you stop rapidly pushing the spacebar, once is enough to skip each line of dailogue. (this one is on you.)

7. This could be for ease of coding, and nothing is inherently wrong with it. I've rarely come across the example you've mentioned, and it also could be very rare, or a place holder for the moment.

8. As stated it's your opinion. this one I agree with partially. My agreement is %'s should be done away with. As for the other parts play XCom if you haven't and watch your 90% chance to hit end up like a 0% while your 85% chance to hit will hit everytime. Besides the 7x you rolled is only 7 out of 100 times that makes the whole percentage. Meaning you still have 93 rolls to be able to state that the % is wrong.


Closing words.

I read and responded logically with very little thought as to my answers in less then five minutes. I sadly must summarize that the mechanics you mention are outdated, and have nothing to do with this game being/or not being a Baldurs Gate game. In truth I myself can't decide if it's a Baldurs Gate game do to fact it's only the first act and we have only a tiny portion as to the lore of the game. Is it saying it's Baldurs Gate 3 because it's tied in somehow to the first 2? In a way that is not shown in this the very 1st act, of a multiact game? Is it named such to ride the tide of... hold on many people that are playing this game weren't even born when the BG games came out.... Since it was over 20 years ago. So logically that doesn't make much sense in the long ride sure it'll attract some die hards like myself and you. Perhaps they named it such on a whim of WoTC? Maybe it's named such for the region it's in? Sadly until the full game is released or Larian/WoTC comes out to say why they decided to call it that, or what the full story line is behind BG3 we'll never know.

Final words

Our opinions yours, mine, everyone elses is simply that an opinion. It makes nothing fact, it can't be turned into a fact just by sheer will, anger, or hate. Until WE know the WHOLE reason why it's titled this way all we have is are personal and often times baised opinions. This whole thing about game mechanics that are over 20 YEARS OLD is showing that according to those stating an unfinished game isn't something just because mechanically it's not the same, or graphically it's not the same, is close minded bullshit. Either like the game or not thats on you, but spewing out how a game made today isn't a game made 20 years ago is stupidity.

Fact if this was true then every Fallout Game other then the first is falsely named. Every GTA game made today is Falsely named. Every Madden game is falsely named. because guess what their graphics, they way their played, have all changed!! OMG did I just say that games have evolved graphically and mechanically over the years in order to keep up with technology?? Why yes I have. Guess I'm going to go call someone on my phooo... oh wait it's different then it was when it first came out. So is it called a phone now still?? How about a refrigerator? It's different technology is different it runs on electricity now? What about a stove? Shouldn't it be called something else after all stoves origionally ran on FIRE, then gas, and now electricity? Washing machines, dryers once you operated them manually. Now you turn a knob, push a button and it does it all on it's own.

@Orbax. Asking why implies a should.
I also don't know how they are calculating the chance to hit (a tooltip on this showing relevant stats would be helpful). I'm used to 3.5e where dex is the primary attribute used for ranged touch etc, which I understand is different mechanically than whats in 5e, however, an in-game explanation of the mechanics would be helpful...

Also @Clavis you stating opinions are opinions is a tautological statement and is useless, just like your vapid opinion.
There are many mechanics as well as just general visual styling in "BG3" that are directly ripped from Divinity Original Sin. I gave a couple examples (such as in the shop). To me it shows the developers were playing the wrong titles before they made this, and apparently, so were you. You're obviously far more upset than I am from FOMO of Black Isle and Bioware's first successful titles considering you're flustered enough to put "final words" after "closing words" before degenerating into a boring diatribe nobody is going to read.

I agree with the shop UI needing an overhaul 100% and it really doesn't help that they never explain how the shop UI works either. Literally the only reason I knew to be on my guard when dealing with traders in this game is because I made the mistake of trying to sell things to traders back in DOS2 and not realizing that they weren't giving me my freaking money. I was just giving away free items to people without even realizing it for hours on end, had to restart my playthrough.

OP, you don't need to be angry at developers for pouring their heart and soul into a wonderfully high quality cRPG. You don't need to be angry with people who have a different opinion than you. You surely don't need to insult someone for taking the time to write a long reply.

Furthermore, it is likely that a number of the UI elements and visual components are temporary or a work in progress. DOS2 had DOS1 UI during early access. The game will likely grow more into its own as EA progresses.

Well, if you look at the difference between my comments and yours, I have brainstorming stuff. When you are about to attack, show a radius that is within your movement that is color coded for best to worst percentage against the target you are highlighting. "Why is your combat system so stupid and I dont know my percentages" is a lot less to work with. Its not that you dont have legitimate complaints, its just that actionable suggestions go a lot farther.

I say this as a solutions architect who pretty much always gets my projects funded because I learned that if you have a first meeting with executives and you slide a project proposal over that has a solution in it, theyre happy they dont have to think, and they say go for it. If you set up a meeting and give a 1 hour presentation on how fucked up everything is everyone walks out feeling worse and not knowing what to do. And since there is no plan there is no project, come talk to me later. But you already look like someone who was struggling and just wanted to tell everyone how hard things were and they question your decisions a lot more closely. #unsolicitedLPT

Played the first one, loving this one so far. Almost every encounter is a treat, memorable, interesting and locations are setting the right atmosphere for what is going on. It really feels like an adventure. As for the bugs, welp, we were warned, it's an EA. Do not buy the games that are not released yet.

Don't be stubborn, let the games evolve, give your objective opinions that can really help this process.

I see the 'this isent baldurs gate' complaint so much and noone can voice well why they think it isent a baldurs gate game.

You cannot get rid of something that wasn't there in the first place: 1 = automatic fail, but that applies ONLY to attacks, which seems to be well in place.
While true that there's no point in making a roll you can't fail, is it really such a common occurrence to warrant crying about?

"This isn't Baldur's Gate" is thrown around a lot, but have you or anyone asked "What makes a Baldur's Gate game?" is it the fact you're a god child? is it 6 person party? is it the aspect of Baal in the story? is it the AD&D ruleset instead of 5e? or is it that fact that the game takes place in and the surrounding countryside of the city Baldur's Gate?

You give a long list of how the UI is not like any Baldur's Gate games. So if you want to base it off the UI why not all the Ice Wind Dale games Baldur's Gate games as they have a very similar UI if not the exact same. I would go on but the vast majority of your points was made by Clavis.

It might be a Baldur's Gate game, but more like a spinoff. It most definitely not the third instalment though. This game draws more similarities with both the mature aspects and gameplay from games like Dragon Age and The Witcher.

Is it in the same universe as the first two games? yes. But every Forgotten Realms game is. Doesn't make them a BG game. I would call it Baldur's Gate: Disciples of the Absolute. Or something like that, like you had long time a go the Dark Alliance games, but it is not BG3, having cameos from the older games won't change much. It's a total departure from the theme, tone, gameplay, and storytelling of the first games.

Look at Daggerfall and Skyrim. As much as they are so far away from each other, they are both still clearly an Elder Scrolls games. Same goes for Mass Effect, or Witcher or Dragon Age, or Neverwinter. But BG3 have nothing in common with the first games, only the lore, and lore is really not enough.

Would you prefer if the game was pixelated with a camera that we cant adjust, only zoom in and out?

Or if they pretend 20 years of worldbuilding dident happen in the forgotten realms?

Does the game need thaco for it to be baldurs gate game?

Does the game need 6 man parties?

Not all change is bad honestly and if prefer if they moved forward and wrote new stories rather then revisit baldurs gate 1 or 2. I love them. But I dont need another story like them...

The game isnt out yet, that means you dont know the full story of the game and that in turn means you cant make an i formed judgement on the games status as a continuation of the previous games or not.

You are currently just spouting unfounded nonsense about he games status as being worthy of the name or not.

Not at all. Pillars of Eternity moved forward and still was able to keep the spirit of a BG game. Felt very much like a spiritual successor. Just like Tides of Numenera was to Torment. It's not just the gameplay, or the system. It's the design, tools they use to deliver the story, the way characters are written. They don't need to ignore the new lore, but if The Witcher 3 was 100 years in the future, different gameplay, different characters, different tone, and different world design, was it still The Witcher 3? or was it a game in the Witcher universe? the fact that it's in the Forgotten Realms, or that we visit the city of Baldur's Gate doesn't make it a Baldur's Gate game. It's like saying that Alien vs Predator is actually Alien 5, because there's a xenomorph in it.

Witcher games revolve around a very specific individual. But if he was present as the player in your altered variant of witcher 3. Yeah it would still be a witcher game.

Honestly what do you want here? To play as a bhaalspawn? To have the story focus on Bhaal?

Baldurs gate 2 finished the story in the throne of bhaal expansion. It was at its core a rpg focused on the region near baldurs gate. The rules used for the game were (I think. Not entitely sure) the relevant ones at the time. The city itself had little to do with the story outside of beeing the largest city in the first game and basicly the place where the player made his fame.

My expectations: the same will hold true for bg3. The city will play a major role in story reasons and it will probably be the hub where we get the most quests and companions from.

Which brings it pretty much in line with bg1.

Well, if without the Witcher it won't be the Witcher 3, then without a Bhaalspawn it's not Baldur's Gate, just like without Shepard it's not Mass Effect. Baldur's Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal didn't had the city of Baldur's Gate, but they were obviously sequels, they continued the story of our heroes. You said it yourself, the story is done. So how come we now have a third in the series? Voyager and Deep Space 9 are in the same universe, but they are not the same series. If you are telling a different story then give it a different name. Being somewhat related to the first games doesn't make it the next chapter of those games.

Insert mr crabs saying 'I like money' 🤷‍♂️

I like Larian's take on rpg's and I love the bg series. If wotc only gives them license to do it if they include bg somehow (probably name recognition) then im fine with that.

I do agree its not a contunation of bg2. That much is clear.

But at the end of the day bg was a rpg in the forgotten realms around baldurs gate. The gaming industry has improved alot since then and I dont really mind that we see these improvements back ingame.

Let me try to voice it then (although after being very disappointed with the prologue, I like the game more and more. It is slowly becoming a Baldur's Gate game).
They haven't tried (yet?) at all to give any sign of it being a Baldur's Gate game. The engine, mechanics, and even the first landscapes, are 100% Divinity:Original Sins.
But to me, Baldur's Gate isn't mechanics, it is a spirit. And when we progress in the story, this spirit, mostly based on companions interactions and landscapes, seems to come out.

Why don't they give us at least a little wink, to let us know we are in the right place, from the start? A lot of nostalgic people, seeing this prologue and mechanics, will just give up and look no further.
Maybe start the game in one of BGs iconic locations? Or a quick chat with an NPC from the first games?

An example/idea:
Intro video: you start in a very classic medieval tavern. Owned by a retired adventurer, a big, strong, bald guy. Strangely, a fat hamster is sitting on the counter, but hey, we've seen stranger things.
Then all hell breaks loose, the tavern is attacked, you get kidnapped and wake up on a strange ship full of brains.
Game starts here.

See what I mean?

Short version: this isn't a Baldur's Gate game because it doesn't try to be, at least not at the start.
They are going to make an awful lot of money out of nostalgic veterans, and they took over probably the most famous RPG in video game history. An acknowledgment of that would have been nice.

Hate? I am not sure if you know what the word "hate" means ... he was just expressing his opinion, the fact, that it does not conform with your view of the subject, does not mean it is out of "hate" ... But anyway, nowadays it is quite typical for young snowflakes this word to be misused.