Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General I hope Baldur's Gate 4 will have more Baldur's Gate.

I'm loving the game, but now that I'm in act 3, I realized that I would have liked it was like this, since the beginning. Act 1 and, especially, act 2 locations, weren't bad, but the city location is so much better, imho, and closer to old Baldur's Gate games.
I don't know if Larian did this because the wood location of act 1 is their trademark, or maybe because the city is too heavy on gpu? But I would have preferred the game started in BG, and that you could also see much more of the city you can see in act 3.

I agree. Looking back at things now, I kind of wish we could have started somewhere in Baldur's Gate City like maybe running a couple errands and catching the rats down in the basement of the Elfsong, then get picked up by a nautiloid just like in the opening animation, and then resume down at the ravaged beach.

Catching the rats in Act III is a nice homage to the original BG, but it's kind of superfluous when you are level 9 or so. And where was the cat!?

Err .. and who says BG4 will even happen ?!?

We dont know what it is, but we know Larians next game will be SF.




Killing the rats happened in Candlekeep, not in Baldur's Gate city.

Who said BG4 was going to be made by Larian?

Heck, I'm hoping BG4 is made by someone other than Larian, given how much Larian aren't fans of DnD rules.


Technically, it was redone in Dark Alliance in which case it was in the city. Specifically, in the cellar of the Elfsong Tavern.

On topic:

For a BG4 game, it would be nice to have Baldur's Gate city be the main hub for the game. Like, you start out there in Act 1 and get to explore the place in depth. Then for later acts you branch out into neighbouring areas and/or portal to different locations (Like the Underdark, Avernus, Astral Plane, Far Realm etc) - But with the city being the place to replenish supplies and having certain things progress as you go through the campaign (Depending on the particular story - Like if it's being beseiged by Mind Flayers, Devils, Githyanki etc you liberate the place over time, or you can have like political things develop, perhaps your party has a bard with them who is writing about your heroics and people in the city hear about you and react differently etc)

Since for a game titled based on the city, it should have the city being a major part of the game. Otherwise you may as well just go with any other DnD setting.

Still waiting for them to fix act 3. The entire missing chapter of upper city and bad writing still linger in the air.

It was always our intention for the Upper City to be an epic, cinematic epilogue bringing the story of Baldur’s Gate 3 to a close. But we didn’t talk about that in advance because it would have been a major spoiler. - from Larian Studio.

I have totally different opinion. I like Act 3 the least.
The story is too messy that I got lost in the story. I dont know what should I do first.

I would prefer a little more straightforward storyline and maps in ACt 3.

I am doing sencond playthrough now, but nit sure If I want to play Act 3 again. Maybe I will rather start third playthrough for Act 1 and 2.

Or maybe Act 3 will not be that chaotic during second playthrough as the first run was, I dont know.

BG1 started in Candlekeep. The city itself was only reached in chapter 5 and while it was quite full of quests, in fact the by far most dense area of the game in regards to quests, it was overall only a small part of the game, less prominent than in BG3.

BG2 happened exclusively outside the sword coast.

So I find the "requirement" to make BG the hub of BG4 extremely random and arbritrary. Sure, you can do it this way. But there is absolutely nothing that forces you to do it this way. Or implies it should be done this way.

IIRC the Forgotten Realms setting is four times as large as Earth. There is no shortage of space, or countries. So why limit yourself to BG and the Sword Coast like that ?



I dont think Larian dislikes D&D. Just because they added their own sauce doesnt mean its not a full D&D game. Or simply fun.

For that matter Bioware also didnt exactly treat AD&D like the bible, either. Even if they had no physics games back then, yet.


I doubt anyone will make a BG4 that will make me happy. The fact that BG3 is so enjoyable is already something of a miracle. In many ways its even better than the originals.

But if someone would ask me to do BG4, I would plan a triology of games, just like Bioware originally intented, with 1-2 addons for every game, too.

And I would rather include as many places of Faerûn as possible, not merely focus on the Sword Coast.

There isn't going to be a BG4 - Larian isn't a bunch of hacks that can't come up with new ideas and locations. Assuming they even return to Faerun which isn't even certain yet.

They already have an idea for what story they want to tell next. Hopefully we will hear more about it within the next year or so.

I do like the diversity. Act 1 is the fun adventuring content in the fun adventuring content environment. Act 2 deals with the divine and their influence over the world - and I do like a bit of horror in this regard. Act 3 is the conclusion and you reach the city. I love the city and how it is made to feel densely populated, but I would have appreciated it much less if it had been all city.

That being said: I keep wondering how much they had originally planned for BG proper. For example I wonder if more roof-content was planned, since most of the roofs have quite a bit of detail and some hidden treasure and you can quite comfortably traverse the city up there - if you can jump far enough or have enough spell slots.

An RPG set entirely in or around a city seems pretty sweet to me (Disco Elysium anyone? Other examples of which I'm unaware?) and would fit Larian's design sensibilities.
Most cities are densely packed with points of interest linked by passageways; this fits Larian's maps to a tee. Most city dwellers are random unremarkables (not trying to be rude ^^ just saying there are more mayors per capita in the countryside), as are Larian's protagonists.

The thing that would be coolest to me would be seeing the city evolve between acts. Instead of building 7 giant maps of different biomes (as you might see in a typical RPG), Larian could build 1 map for the city in Act I, 2 versions of the city map for act II, and 4 for act III, letting the city change with the player's decisions.

Another benefit would be follow-through with NPC arcs. Where's such-and-such from Act I? Close to their home in the city, unless a story beat dictated otherwise.

As OP mentions, optimisation might be an issue (imagine loading all those inventories at once!). But the city doesn't need to be that big or completely seemless. It needs to be alive and thematically relevant.

I had a very hard time not stopping BG1 when I got to the city. Same with this game.

Too overwhelming.

Personally I think DnD games are at their best when you get to explore a number of cities, traverse different overworld landscapes, planes and so on. I already think we lingered a bit too long in Baldur's Gate in BG3. I love Disco Elysium, for example, but the scope of that story is much smaller, you're "just" saving yourself and solving a murder case, your actions have very little to no repercussion in the world as whole. For a DnD game, I usually expect to be fighting gods to save the world by the end of a story, or something on that scale.

I think making the city a hub would be a good design decision. You're constantly going out to other areas to explore other things, but you come back periodically and see more of the city and experience more quests. I think the big problem is that the scope of the city makes the structure of the game just fall apart. Act 2 feels like a major climactic moment, moreso than the end of act one. After that point everything just shifts massively. Then you start act 3 in a small town, dealing with its problems, it feels like you're at the start of an entirely new game when really things should all be coming together. You're essentially presented with a whole new slate of antagonists. The cult of the absolute that's been your main foe for two acts is revealed as a puppet for new bad guys that you're only just introduced to, who have their own forces that have barely been hinted at. The story throws so much new stuff at you at the same time it becomes more dense with content than ever, and it just turns into a mess of sidequests.

That’s fair. DnD’s scope makes a single city an awkward setting. (Though maybe Elturel during its descent to Avernus could be a good candidate).

DnD’s focus on combat is also a problem. Either the RPG’s mechanics could encourage non-violent progression through the story, or the story could justify violence, but murder hobos shouldn’t be viable. The selling point of a city is its vibrancy and liveliness; the game should be about options, not combat.

DnD does have cool features that could be put to great use in a city. What if mage hand could pick up objects and pick pockets? Or if Detect Thoughts could reveal basic emotions of passers-by?

As Gray Ghost points out, the third act should bring closure rather than just more stuff. Remaining in a single evolving location could help acheive that, as would maintaining a consistent cast of characters.

I’d also like to see two sets of permutations: One for side questy stuff and one for story. The idea is to increase replay value by having the city include several factions (say 3) and let the game decide for each run which is the antagonist, which is helpful and which seems helpful but betrays in act 3.

I’m just pitching a whole new game at this point. In conclusion, I agree with you it might not work the best for BG4, but an RPG where the point is to navigate the complexity of a big city through charm, intimidation or trickery sounds awesome to me.

Funnily enough, 5e already has that in Mage Hand Legerdemain, a feature of the Arcane Trickster subclass, but apparently it was not implemented in BG3. I hope they fix it eventually.

I think BG2 is a great example of how to make a big city your base hub as well as a place with evolving stories that progress in parallel to the main plot. Wouldn't mind seeing BG4 follow a similar structure.