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Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane
I usually run with: anything that allows you to develop a personality for your character and allows you to make decisions that affect the plot is an RPG.

Agreed...
Though, I'll take this a step further.

I think there's TWO elements that make a game a RPG:
1. The player must make decisions that can affect the outcome of the quest, game-world, and/or end-game.
2. The player can alter his character's very own base-statistics, class, abilities, skill sets, and/or equipment throughout the game.

Shadow of Destiny is an adventure game -- and it a;sp makes you make decisions that change the outcome A LOT -- usually by solving puzzles and deciding who to side with in dialogues. Many puzzles have multiple solutions. Problem -- Shadow of Destiny is really more of an adventure game, since you spend most of your time solving puzzles until the end of time. There IS nothing here based off your character's stats, skills, class, or anything -- it's about the player's skill of quick wit and how quickly they can come up w/ some logical answer to a puzzle. My character Eike will wind up like yours, in his looks, stats, and skills -- since he doesn't have any -- by the time the game's over.

Another one -- Silent Hill series. These games, more so than anything, are LINEAR action-adventure games. There's a big emphasis here on the action combat and puzzle solving (adventure) aspect of the game. Though, finding certain objects in the game or not finding certain objects, can really change the final outcome of the game, when the end hits. And there's numerous different endings, too -- it changes the ending drastically. So, is this a RPG? No -- it doesn't contain element #2.

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If nothing you do affects the plot in any way and you have no way of developing any kind of personality for your character, it's not an RPG.

And yeah, I know there are a few that are borderline smile


So, yes Diablo would not agree w/ my rule #1, but it so does works with #2 -- BIG TIME. The game is literally packed w/ tons of skills, classes, abilities, and equipment. In likelihood, my Assassin will NOT look like your Assassin -- my character of the same class is likely going to be much different than yours. Also, Diablo is LOADED w/ tons of action -- so, that's why it's an Action-RPG. Sacred series would fit under this bill, as well.

Silverfall series treads the line even more so. It does fill both my rules. But, at its heart, more so than anything else, it's an action-RPG in the same style of Diablo. But, just about every quest, you have to decide to side w/ Technology or Nature. And your decisions will change not just the way the story turns out, but also the way your character's skills can be upgraded. Silverfall though is nowhere as deep as say many other RPG's in the decision-making aspect -- but Silverfall series are more of an RPG than Diablo, but nowhere as deep on the RPG aspect of rule #1 as say SW: KOTOR, BG series, Vampire: Bloodlines, NWN: Hordes, The Witcher, or PS:T.

STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl is more so than anything else, first and foremost, is a shooter. Though, it does have, for the most part, an open-world at your disposal. Though, STALKER: Clear Sky blurs the line here and takes this a step further -- as now you can upgrade weapons and armor you already own -- which is a very RPG-like element. In these games, you can decide what factions to join; what missions to do and not do; which way to finish a mission; and it will all change the way the game ends -- especially in SOC. Clear Sky, regardless of what faction you are with -- the game only ends one way, since it sets up how basically SOC begins. Still, I'd consider the STALKER games shooters, myself.

Last edited by MysterD; 08/09/09 04:02 AM.
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I must say that from my POV 'Action RPGs' should drop the RPG part, because most of them don't qualify as RPGs at all. Diablo 2 especially is a superb game, don't get me wrong, and I've played (and beaten) enough Action-RPGs that I'm not in any way knocking the genre. When they're done well, I love them. But they are completely misclassified.

From your examples (And I've played neither, so I'm only going by what you are saying, here) Shadow Of Destiny may result in a character with the same stats and skills, but she (Elke is a girl's name, right?) won't end the game with the same personality every time - which qualifies it as an RPG because it allows for characterisation.

Silent Hill does not allow characterisation (Again, going by your description), only multiple solutions to puzzles. So it would not qualify.

Possibly the oddest game that definitely DOES qualify is Overlord. Your stats and skills can be changed, as can your equipment, but not by any of the usual devices (No EXP). And you have immense leeway on just how good or evil you want to be. Nothing stops you from being really good one minute and really evil the next. It's an RPG.


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gothic 1 and 2
3...just lame...

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SUIKODEN 1 2 3 smile
and breath of fire 3 and 4

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1. Diablo 2 - old very good Diablo...
2. Divine Divinity - i try end this game 5 times, but only last time i killed last boss smile

i didn't play in other RPG game, but if i play i didn't remeber it ;P

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my top five rpgs:

5. final fantasy xiii (sure its linear, but the combat cant be beat )

4. final fantasy xii (combat is a little wanting, but boss fights and quickening chains are amazing. there is no enemy in ANY other game that takes as much skill and time as yiazmat.)

3. fallout 3 (for sheer size, im 100 hours in and still not done exploring)

2. oblivion (for sheer size and depth of the story lines)

1. final fantasy vii (most people who've played it will say the same. best storyline, best action, and incredibly large for a ps1 game. also boasts the largest collection of sequels and prequels of any game ever made. if you havent played it, you cant say you are a true fan of rpgs)

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Dragon Age
KOTOR
and every other BioWare game laugh


ENGLISH GRAMMAR IS MY WEAK SIDE
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The best:

- Divine Divinity + DD2 Ego Draconis
- Neverwinter Nights 2
- Morrowind

The worst:
- The Witcher

The game itself wasn't too bad, but not really suited for female gamers smile

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-Divine Divinity
-Divinity II: Ego Draconis
-Gothic
-Gothic II
-Risen
-Planescape: Torment
-Neverwinter Nights
-Neverwinter Nights 2
-Icewind Dale
-Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter
-Icewind Dale II
-Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
-Fallout
-Fallout 2
-Deus Ex
-System Shock
-System Shock 2
-Baldur's Gate
-Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
-Diablo II
-The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall
-The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
-The Witcher
-Mass Effect
-Alpha Protocol
-Torchlight
-DeathSpank
-Sacred Gold
-Sacred II: Fallen Angel
-Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
-Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords
-Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines
-Ultima VII: The Black Gate
-Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
-Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds
-Drakensang: The Dark Eye
-Fate
-Dragon Age: Origins
-Albion
-Betrayal at Krondor
-Chrono Trigger
-Lost Odyssey


My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
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Originally Posted by Libertarian
-Divine Divinity
-Divinity II: Ego Draconis
-Gothic
-Gothic II
-Risen
-Planescape: Torment
-Neverwinter Nights
-Neverwinter Nights 2
-Icewind Dale
-Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter
-Icewind Dale II
-Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
-Fallout
-Fallout 2
-Deus Ex
-System Shock
-System Shock 2
-Baldur's Gate
-Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
-Diablo II
-The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall
-The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
-The Witcher
-Mass Effect
-Alpha Protocol
-Torchlight
-DeathSpank
-Sacred Gold
-Sacred II: Fallen Angel
-Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
-Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords
-Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines
-Ultima VII: The Black Gate
-Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
-Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds
-Drakensang: The Dark Eye
-Fate
-Dragon Age: Origins
-Albion
-Betrayal at Krondor
-Chrono Trigger
-Lost Odyssey


Dragon Age one of the last smile


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Originally Posted by Libertarian
-Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura


What do you find about this game?
This game have the same kind of 2D design as DD, right?

Today, GOG.com give this game away (on steam) for just $4,19 ! wink

Is it worth the money?


On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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For only 5 Dollars I'd say: Yes, indeed !

It's not much action-oriented, though. At least that's how I have it in my memory.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer
For only 5 Dollars I'd say: Yes, indeed !

It's not much action-oriented, though. At least that's how I have it in my memory.


I just read about this game Arcanum on GOG.com and like it ! So far I can read this game have many NPC's, quests and a free to explore big world ! I love "technics/technology"(steamwork, yes) and I love Magic ... hmmm ... maybe this game is made for me? delight


What do you mean saying "not much action-oriented"?
Do you mean it have less hack'n'slash? wink
Another question: do you remember this game have some (mind-breaking) puzzles to solve?


On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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I can only say that I have played far too little in order to be able to sayenough about it.

In your case, I'd ask around at RPGWatch or use the search function here and there.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Some basic info on Arcanum without spoilers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura

You can do a lot of fighting if you want, but it's not required in order to play through the game. There are multiple solutions for many quests, including non-violent ones. Arcanum is a great game smile

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Thanks Alrik AND Lurker for the tips
and the link to Arcanum on Wiki looks very good ! smile
wink


Last edited by Joram; 27/07/10 10:43 AM.

On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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There are a few which I disliked so much I never finished them.
Baldur's Gate
Wizardry 8
Harbinger


The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?
~Jeremy Bentham
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Maybe not neccassarily the greatest RPGs ever but certainly my favourites and go on my greatest list (that I have played and enjoyed anyway).

Parasite Eve
Vagrant Story
Final Fantasy X
Baldurs Gate 1 & 2
Neverwinter Nights
Baldurs Gate: Dark Alliance 1 & 2 (the first was my favourite, probably one of the best hack and slash RPGs ever made)
Champions of Norrath 1 & 2
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Summoner 1 & 2
Sudeki
Jade Empire
Mass Effect 1 & 2
Sacred 2
Dragon Age Origins
Guild Wars
Divinity 2
Borderlands
Elderscrolls IV: Oblivion
Elderscrolls III: Morrowind

Last edited by Unreal Warfare; 26/10/10 06:07 PM.


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Wooow Warfare, what a long list you have wink

I just only played Divinity games and some other ones ...
IF I must make a list, for me it is still now:
  • Divine Divinity !
  • Divinity II Ego Draconis and probably next month: The Dragon Knight Saga (on Xbox) !!
  • Beyond Divinity, but only playing the first act, not to the end ... but once ...
  • Adventuregames like Myst I/II/III ...
  • Risen, now playing on xbox, just level 8
  • next month maybe Two Worlds II go over Risen !! ( on Xbox)
  • Oblivion(Xbox), but don't play already to the end)
  • Puzzles games .... and strategy games ....


On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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Gothic 1 and 2 by fair is the greatest RPG ever made! ofc Divinity II i beleave has a nice sport on that throne also XD.

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